Reason 12 announced

[MuzikFreq]

And yet - it's still an order of magnitude more inspiring to work in compared to that train wreck of DAW known as Studio One...

Not that I want to interrupt your argument, but, no, it isn't.

IMO, of course. I once was very attracted to Reason, but then I went a bit deeper under the surface, and found out what a pain some things are, which are child's play in other DAW's... to be fair, Propellerhead did a lot to improve that, though. No more need for complicated routing to create a simple ping pong delay. Or tricks to achieve sidechain compression. Yes, I know that's been a while back, but, it sort of imprinted in my memory...

Ummm The Echo can do Pingpong delays easily. Same with the rv7000 with multitap if you want to get a slightly more controlled adjustment.
Side chaining is one of the easiest things as well. Even more if you get the Pump RE and set it as a send return with the send option ticked. Then each channel can be toggled and adjusted accordingly.

For more complex stuff it would be no different from any other plugins that can do super deep sound design like uvi falcon, Synthmaster, ect.

[chk071]

And yet - it's still an order of magnitude more inspiring to work in compared to that train wreck of DAW known as Studio One...

Not that I want to interrupt your argument, but, no, it isn't.

IMO, of course. I once was very attracted to Reason, but then I went a bit deeper under the surface, and found out what a pain some things are, which are child's play in other DAW's... to be fair, Propellerhead did a lot to improve that, though. No more need for complicated routing to create a simple ping pong delay. Or tricks to achieve sidechain compression. Yes, I know that's been a while back, but, it sort of imprinted in my memory...

Ummm The Echo can do Pingpong delays easily. Same with the rv7000 with multitap if you want to get a slightly more controlled adjustment.
Side chaining is one of the easiest things as well.

Did you forget to read this part of the post you quoted?

I once was very attracted to Reason, but then I went a bit deeper under the surface, and found out what a pain some things are, which are child's play in other DAW's... to be fair, Propellerhead did a lot to improve that, though. No more need for complicated routing to create a simple ping pong delay. Or tricks to achieve sidechain compression. Yes, I know that's been a while back, but, it sort of imprinted in my memory...

[MuzikFreq]

And yet - it's still an order of magnitude more inspiring to work in compared to that train wreck of DAW known as Studio One...

Not that I want to interrupt your argument, but, no, it isn't.

IMO, of course. I once was very attracted to Reason, but then I went a bit deeper under the surface, and found out what a pain some things are, which are child's play in other DAW's... to be fair, Propellerhead did a lot to improve that, though. No more need for complicated routing to create a simple ping pong delay. Or tricks to achieve sidechain compression. Yes, I know that's been a while back, but, it sort of imprinted in my memory...

Ummm The Echo can do Pingpong delays easily. Same with the rv7000 with multitap if you want to get a slightly more controlled adjustment.
Side chaining is one of the easiest things as well.

Did you forget to read this part of the post you quoted?

I once was very attracted to Reason, but then I went a bit deeper under the surface, and found out what a pain some things are, which are child's play in other DAW's... to be fair, Propellerhead did a lot to improve that, though. No more need for complicated routing to create a simple ping pong delay. Or tricks to achieve sidechain compression. Yes, I know that's been a while back, but, it sort of imprinted in my memory...

Missed the no more part. Sorry

[chk071]

No probs. Granted, might have been a bit unfair from my side as well, as it was really quite a while ago (when I still took a look into Reason the one or the other time).

Nowadays, the DAW is really hard for me to get into though, because it's so different. Gotta like it, I guess.

[THE INTRANCER]

And yet - it's still an order of magnitude more inspiring to work in compared to that train wreck of DAW known as Studio One...

I dunno if I'd call working in Reason any more inspiring than it does with Studio One. Using Studio One feels more like you're working with something more pro end level that gets things done, quickly and efficiently, rather than having the feeling of being bogged down in old an old dated system that feels generally slower to work in and cumbersome to manage.

Had to go to Studio One to get step-time recording and video support.. folder tracks.. ect..

[jens]

Personally I prefer Reason over Studio One because I find it more inspiring to work with, but I think both are great, modern DAWs that imo are a lot more streamlined and more efficent to work with than perhaps some of that older stuff is.

The "more pro" is of course rubbish...

[SLiC]

Had to go to Studio One to get step-time recording and video support.. folder tracks.. ect..

I’m a long time S1 user...Reason has better step time editors (the players) in my opinion, have you tried drum sequencer? I also think the mixer routing is superior and I like the dub/alt lane concepts more than than S1 (which can feel like death by menus sometimes). Of course Reason can also be a rack of instruments, fx and midi sequencers within S1....but not visa versa! The fact that Reason can be used in any DAW makes it a must have for just about anyone!

[chk071]

The fact that Reason can be used in any DAW makes it a must have for just about anyone!

It would be more attractive if any of the included devices would be superior than most of the stuff available in the VST world. Unfortunately, for me, it isn't.

But, the biggest argument for me always has been that Reason just feels alien to me. I don't feel comfortable in it. It pretends to be easy, but, if you want to take full advantage of the modular concept, it can be very difficult and complicated, almost like a hardware device, which needs wiring and routing. IMO, Studio One is much easier in that regard.

Don't feel very comfortable ranting about it here either. Just my opinion. I definitely think it's great value for money, if you happen to like the concept.

[SLiC]

The fact that Reason can be used in any DAW makes it a must have for just about anyone!

It would be more attractive if any of the included devices would be superior than most of the stuff available in the VST world. Unfortunately, for me, it isn't.

But, the biggest argument for me always has been that Reason just feels alien to me. I don't feel comfortable in it. It pretends to be easy, but, if you want to take full advantage of the modular concept, it can be very difficult and complicated, almost like a hardware device, which needs wiring and routing. IMO, Studio One is much easier in that regard.

Don't feel very comfortable ranting about it here either. Just my opinion. I definitely think it's great value for money, if you happen to like the concept.

It’s a hardware paradigm so definately won’t be for everyone. There are many simpler DAWs than S1 (anything with a rack like Bitwig or Live for example) I prefer the rack concept in some form, hate the combiner in S1 (can’t remember what it’s called!) making something unique in Reason combiner is very easy, and I think some o& the fx and instruments in the last couple of years are as good as top VSTs (especially when combined, which is reasons superpower).

Stuff like the 4 note Euclidean sequencers through scales and topographic drum machines (grids) take it towards modular level creativity...so just comparing it to a bread and butter ‘get the job done ’ DAW is probably doing it a disservice, it isnt that thing.

[chk071]

There are many simpler DAWs than S1 (anything with a rack like Bitwig or Live for example) I prefer the rack concept in some form, hate the combiner in S1 (can’t remember what it’s called!)

You mean the multi instrument. TBH, I find it a bit lacklustre. Could be better. I think Bitwig has a better implementation of that, as far as I could see (didn't actually try it, just read about it).

That said, I very rarely use it anyway. People could make music before multi instruments.

[SLiC]

Yup...I started on 4 track tape, it’s all amazing to me...but given I have accumulated 500hp of Eurorack I guess you can figure I like combining things! Of course you can just do it with Reaktor or even modern VSTs like Phase Plant in any DAW, but some DAWs are just more creative and inspirational to me for certain things...I often consider DAWs like Live, Bitwig and Reason as ‘super instruments’ with built in sequencers...workstation synths on steroids! But then you are talking to a guy who likes patching with cables, so.....

[THE INTRANCER]

Had to go to Studio One to get step-time recording and video support.. folder tracks.. ect..

I’m a long time S1 user...Reason has better step time editors (the players) in my opinion, have you tried drum sequencer? I also think the mixer routing is superior and I like the dub/alt lane concepts more than than S1 (which can feel like death by menus sometimes). Of course Reason can also be a rack of instruments, fx and midi sequencers within S1....but not visa versa! The fact that Reason can be used in any DAW makes it a must have for just about anyone!

I used Reason from 1.0 up to version 7.03, (so until 2014 before switching to S1) so don't know if you mean Redrum. I'm referring to the step-time function on the main sequencer in S1.. although it has evolved a bit since version 3 with the drum editors, this is what I mean..

[SLiC]

Yes, I have the current version of Studio One an£ an ATOM SQ!

I am referring to the Reason Players, in particular the Drum Sequencer (but there are lots of others). You can just drop this on any Reason or VST drum device, works great with XO drum! Very easy to get some great patterns going then send to track for further editing.

[apoclypse]

And yet - it's still an order of magnitude more inspiring to work in compared to that train wreck of DAW known as Studio One...

No.

[apoclypse]

The fact that Reason can be used in any DAW makes it a must have for just about anyone!

It would be more attractive if any of the included devices would be superior than most of the stuff available in the VST world. Unfortunately, for me, it isn't.

But, the biggest argument for me always has been that Reason just feels alien to me. I don't feel comfortable in it. It pretends to be easy, but, if you want to take full advantage of the modular concept, it can be very difficult and complicated, almost like a hardware device, which needs wiring and routing. IMO, Studio One is much easier in that regard.

Don't feel very comfortable ranting about it here either. Just my opinion. I definitely think it's great value for money, if you happen to like the concept.

It’s a hardware paradigm so definately won’t be for everyone. There are many simpler DAWs than S1 (anything with a rack like Bitwig or Live for example) I prefer the rack concept in some form, hate the combiner in S1 (can’t remember what it’s called!) making something unique in Reason combiner is very easy, and I think some o& the fx and instruments in the last couple of years are as good as top VSTs (especially when combined, which is reasons superpower).

Stuff like the 4 note Euclidean sequencers through scales and topographic drum machines (grids) take it towards modular level creativity...so just comparing it to a bread and butter ‘get the job done ’ DAW is probably doing it a disservice, it isnt that thing.

You are entitled to your opinion but setting up a "combinator" where I just want to route all my drums to a mixer track is super easy to do in S1 and extremely tedious to do in Reason. If you like looking at a mess of cables and figuring out what's routing where then Reason is great if you don't (I don't like messy cables in real life let alone digitally) then it's added procedure for very little benefit imo.

The problem isn't that Reason isn't powerful, it's that its a chore to use. With S1 its workflow is its strong suit. It doesn't have all the fancy routing capabilities that Reason has (not that you can't do some fancy routing anyway), but that's not what its trying to be anyway. It's trying to get you from point a to point be with as little friction as possible.

If I want my drum module to route to a mixer track I just drop in Impact, assign the outs right in the mixer or plugin window. Done. Now do that in Reason, you'll be dragging cables for days. You want to add a reverb, compressor or saturation, well you are dragging more cables. I literally just have to drag and drop a plugin in S1, no hassle not mess of cables. If I want to change the order of my processor I don't have to re-cable anything, just drag the plugins in the order I want them.

In Reason if I'm in the mixer I have to constantly go back to the rack if I want to do something as simple as adding a reverb or delay on a track. In Studio One I can drag it in the arrange view, in the mixer, even on just the clip.

Sorry but Reason is a mess imo and I started with Reason in version 2.5. At some point I just couldn't take it anymore.