Why you left Ableton?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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KVRAF
19457 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:29 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:09 am
pdxindy wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:21 am
I left Live cause I was buying a Linnstrument and wanted a DAW that supported MPE. Live doesn't... it cannot even record PolyAT.

M4L was too buggy and caused a lot of crashes. I eventually just stopped using M4L and then Live was solid and I was generally happy with it.
This was my reason too. Moot now, but I don’t see any major compelling reason to return to it. I miss the Looper plugin, but that’s it. Being able to set a project tempo based on loop length was pretty cool.
Not yet moot... Live does not record the midi channel of each note. So if I set my Linnstrument to output midi channels 1-4 so I can play my Elektron Analog 4 as a 4 voice MPE synth and record that into Live, it will not play back correctly. Because Live does not record the midi channel data, it just blindly plays back the notes and auto round robins the midi channels 1-16... oops, 12 notes will do nothing.

Likewise the Linnstrument has the channel per row mode. Live cannot handle that at all... until Live records midi channel data, it will be an incomplete MPE implementation.

KVRAF
1912 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:45 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:59 am
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:25 am
SLiC wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:29 am
Live has a brilliant reverb, far better than Bitwigs
I already have brilliant reverbs... I appreciate Bitwig's reverb cause I can put any device or chain of devices in the feedback path and create effects I wouldn't be able to do otherwise.
I pretty much use just Lives FX when using PUSH 2, its like using hardware and the graphical feedback on the PUSH 2is superb. You have native AAS FX, Crytonics stuff and some of the Ableton stuff is top draw. I have everything I can think of (spectral, grain, resonators, looper, convolution, shimmer)...I wouldn't know what to make! So need for me to make anything or go 3rd party (not even MAX where you could find already made or make just about anything you want!)

If however I wanted to drop something in the feedback path of a reverb or delay, I would just use Bitwig :wink:
we have to give a name to people who own both, bitwig and live;

the live-wiggers?

bitlivers? (a bit hannibal lector...)

the wigglers! or is that slang for something i don't know.

an we wiggle through discussion about live vs bitwig studio, because we can do it all (+some extra DAW's of course...)
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:56 am

Well, the Bitwig founders/developers were Ableton developers for many years, so its not that unusual that people may like both!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
3477 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:59 am

Livdwig (beethovenians)
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRAF
2141 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:07 am
The Audio FX Rack isn't particularly convoluted and you are just using an EQ (or filter) to process whatever part you want, you can even go further and use dynamics, velocity etc and have pretty much unlimited chains and chains within chains (fx within fx) for complex routing.
I have created several racks for multi-band splitting. It is clearly subpar to me. Just changing where the bands split is messy. In one, I use Multi-Band Dynamics. I have three chains in an effects rack.

Image

This is usable, but convoluted. I've (feel free to isolate this problem to me) accidentally clicked on a solo button in Multiband Dynamics instead of on the chain selector section a number of times, and I have to think it through a bit in my head when I want to change where the bands split. For example, "Okay, I want to move the split between the mid and high bands. Do I do that in the mid chain or the high? Oh, I remember, in both . . ."

In my experience, that's pretty crappy. For sure, it's nice to have a workaround, but Ableton promotes this as a nifty feature. Come on. It's 2021. They can do better.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

KVRAF
1912 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:23 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:56 am
Well, the Bitwig founders/developers were Ableton developers for many years, so its not that unusual that people may like both!
perhaps it is me, it seems like high noon, a western movie, bitwig users and live users...

but then, again, it is indeed not strange. yes, i knew they came from ableton (like studio 1, from steinberg), you can see it still.... so i think you are right, but the shoot out, or duel! of epic proportions! hahaha
liquidsound wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:59 am
Livdwig (beethovenians)
:D
Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 am
SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:07 am
The Audio FX Rack isn't particularly convoluted and you are just using an EQ (or filter) to process whatever part you want, you can even go further and use dynamics, velocity etc and have pretty much unlimited chains and chains within chains (fx within fx) for complex routing.
I have created several racks for multi-band splitting. It is clearly subpar to me. Just changing where the bands split is messy. In one, I use Multi-Band Dynamics. I have three chains in an effects rack.

Image

This is usable, but convoluted. I've (feel free to isolate this problem to me) accidentally clicked on a solo button in Multiband Dynamics instead of on the chain selector section a number of times, and I have to think it through a bit in my head when I want to change where the bands split. For example, "Okay, I want to move the split between the mid and high bands. Do I do that in the mid chain or the high? Oh, I remember, in both . . ."

In my experience, that's pretty crappy. For sure, it's nice to have a workaround, but Ableton promotes this as a nifty feature. Come on. It's 2021. They can do better.
i agree that racks aren't that user friendly. i can work with them, but still, sometimes.. as you say..
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:45 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 am
In my experience, that's pretty crappy. For sure, it's nice to have a workaround, but Ableton promotes this as a nifty feature. Come on. It's 2021. They can do better.
How about this? (Free Multiband Anything In Ableton Live)

https://elphnt.io/store/splttr/
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRian
659 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:58 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 am
SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:07 am
The Audio FX Rack isn't particularly convoluted and you are just using an EQ (or filter) to process whatever part you want, you can even go further and use dynamics, velocity etc and have pretty much unlimited chains and chains within chains (fx within fx) for complex routing.
I have created several racks for multi-band splitting. It is clearly subpar to me. Just changing where the bands split is messy. In one, I use Multi-Band Dynamics. I have three chains in an effects rack.

Image

This is usable, but convoluted. I've (feel free to isolate this problem to me) accidentally clicked on a solo button in Multiband Dynamics instead of on the chain selector section a number of times, and I have to think it through a bit in my head when I want to change where the bands split. For example, "Okay, I want to move the split between the mid and high bands. Do I do that in the mid chain or the high? Oh, I remember, in both . . ."

In my experience, that's pretty crappy. For sure, it's nice to have a workaround, but Ableton promotes this as a nifty feature. Come on. It's 2021. They can do better.
I've always hated this workflow in Ableton. I finally just ended up making a rack and mapped the buttons but it's nowhere near as convenient as Bitwig's device. On top of that it only handles multiband but doesn't do much for mid-side, stereo split etc. You end up with a fairly large rack just to do something I think is fairly simple. Even Studio One's limited splitter tool is better in that regard.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

KVRian
659 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:02 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:45 am
Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 am
In my experience, that's pretty crappy. For sure, it's nice to have a workaround, but Ableton promotes this as a nifty feature. Come on. It's 2021. They can do better.
How about this? (Free Multiband Anything In Ableton Live)

https://elphnt.io/store/splttr/
That's basically a premade rack that does what Ableton promotes anyway. It's not any better. It uses EQs to split the signal.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

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KVRAF
9376 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:38 pm

apoclypse wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:02 am
SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:45 am
Dirtgrain wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 am
In my experience, that's pretty crappy. For sure, it's nice to have a workaround, but Ableton promotes this as a nifty feature. Come on. It's 2021. They can do better.
How about this? (Free Multiband Anything In Ableton Live)

https://elphnt.io/store/splttr/
That's basically a premade rack that does what Ableton promotes anyway. It's not any better. It uses EQs to split the signal.
...which means it's not accurate or clean.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
3477 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:45 pm

And that’s the end of music production for hundreds of thousands of Live users... :dog:
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:26 pm

:lol:

Right - but you have to have your reasons to leave, if no native multi-band splitter in the rack is it, so be it! There are probably people posting in the ‘why you left Bitwig’ thread for similar but different reasons!

Most of the reasons I was not using Live much have now been addressed, in 11 and it is superb if you want a dedicated controller for playing your DAW like a hardware instrument,

However, neither Live nor Bitwig has native audio pitch correction…and even Reason can do that ;-)
Last edited by SLiC on Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:27 pm

Dp
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRAF
2141 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:21 pm

I haven't left Ableton, just in on the discussion.

Also, Live 11 has been crashing for me. Today, I tweaked the output on Kush Silika, and it crashed. It often crashes when I try to use Adaptiverb on it. I have thought about leaving, for this reason, as Live 10 crashed weekly for me, but I don't know that other DAWs don't have this problem. I know there is a beta for updated Live 11, but I'm waiting for official update.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

KVRAF
3477 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:28 pm

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:26 pm
:lol:

Right - but you have to have your reasons to leave, if no native multi-band splitter in the rack is it, so be it! There are probably people posting in the ‘why you left Bitwig’ thread for similar but different reasons!

Most of the reasons I was not using Live much have now been addressed, in 11 and it is superb if you want a dedicated controller for playing your DAW like a hardware instrument,

However, neither Live nor Bitwig has native audio pitch correction…and even Reason can do that ;-)
I didn’t leave Live of course but I understand why anyone moves around from Daw to Daw in an euclidean fashion :hihi:
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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