That's again another can of worms, me thinks.BONES wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:03 pmBut then you'd expect those super-cool dudes who walk all over the big outdoor festival stage would go in and out of time as they move around but you don't hear that at hose events, do you? I certainly don't but, to be fair, I don't go to a concert to listen for all the little technical details, I go to hear music I like played as loud as possible.jens wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:03 amFirst of all it's of course an entirely different thing whether the bass-player him- or herself delayed or whether he/she hears the drummer delayed. Imagine a bass-player standing right in front of his amp twenty meters away from the un-amplified drummer - both would hear each other with the same exact same delay and themselves with no delay, so this delay would automatically be compensated for automatically and hence there'd be no issue at all. But then of course for such adistance you'd have to mike up and amplify the drummer and then the question would be where the PA is. Wold the bass-player go over the same PA and it would be right in the middle between them, it would create the same Haas effect for both instruments and both players, which again would make it pretty much a non-iussue indeed. If the PA however was anywhere else, issues would start to arise, slight ones or more severe ones, depending on the actual circumstances.
First of all, most professional musicians nowadays use in-ear monitoring, and then it's a non-issue anyway - and then for bigger concerts there is always a dedicated monitoring tech, who ideally really know what he does and who will seek to make sure there's no weak spots anywhere on the stage, so even without in-ear monitoring there really shouldn't be much of an issue. Then, as I mentioned before, a skilled player will be able to work around latency, at least to some degree and those playing on bigger festivals usually have practized a lot. But then again, it's not as if I have never heard lousy timing on recordings of such a concert (not saying latency should be the cause or the sole cause then, but it has to be mentioned)
You must be talking about vintage digital synth then as these are typically just a bespoke computer running dedicated software basically and thus WILL introduce latency indeed. It's presumption on your part to argue I use these. My electric guitars don't have any intrinsic latency and neither do my acoustic guitars, my basses, my mandoline, uke, rajao, dulcimer, etc. - and the same goes for my Hohner Electra & Organa, my Eko Orchestra, my Elkas, yadda yadda. My Refaces could have latency, but I can't remember ever having noticed any, so it's pretty safe to say that Yamaha managed to keep it really low.Actually Scot Solida, who you may of heard of, ran some tests on his basement full of vintage gear, many years ago, and posted the results here somewhere. From memory, the average latency came out at 9.5ms or so and some instruments were as high as 20ms. So not all presumption, some memory involved, which may or may not be 100% but will be in the ball park.That's an awful amount of (false) presumption right there.
If I would use such a vintage digital synth, I would be able to somehow play around the latency - also by simply avoiding to play what can't be properly played with it.
As I already mentioned, it depends a lot on the music you play and how well you play it. I linked to a video that gave examples of music where it would matter A LOT. That does not mean it naturally should matter fo you or anyone else equally. I never made such a generalization - it was YOU who quite blatantly did it by claiming latency factually is generally irrelevant and an imagined problem because you and your mate can't hear/feel it.
And lastly, this certainly is an area where you could ask the henn/egg question. Can you not play a groove because you can't imagine it or can you not imagine a groove because you can't play it? Also in a band groove is very much a group-thing, so it depends a lot on your co-musos too - they might push you or they might hold you back. It's not entirely impossible that latency could be big issue for your mate if he played different music with different folks.
In regards to the music, I think tempo, note-length and micro-timing are not the only relevant factors btw. - staccato notes, short rests, syncopation and such also may matter a lot in regards to how problematic any given latency is.
Personally I am always interested in reguarly pushing my own limits, and in that case sgnificant latency is really the last thing I need.