Best vst for fat bass

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KVRist
279 posts since 30 Jun, 2009 from moon

Post Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:07 pm

I forgot BeepStreet Dagger.
It may be best or at least one of the best.
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KVRAF
9117 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:17 pm

ANA2
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KVRist
40 posts since 17 Oct, 2020

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:39 am

"Fat" bass is IMO more about processing / mixing than the synth itself.

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1177 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Future

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:16 pm

In the same mix, with same processing...some presets, made with some synths sound naturally more fat...
or some presets, made with some synths sounds naturally fat without processing at all.
Cheers :)

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KVRian
1370 posts since 12 Oct, 2012

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 pm

Azbest wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:39 am
"Fat" bass is IMO more about processing / mixing than the synth itself.
Definitely possible, but some synths just seem to be "Fat" from the get go. Probably not magic and unicorns, just some integrated processing, but the result is still nice.

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GRRRRRRR!
11946 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:38 pm

VELLTONE MUSIC wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:06 am
Maybe ADSR settings are the key for fat bass or some mixing technique,can't say
Decay settings can be very important. It's harder to get that fat, round bottom end if your decay is too fast.
but sometimes i hear songs with almost perfect 'fat' bass and not sure is it sound design more important or mixing,
What's an example? Just so we can all be on the same page.
Azbest wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:39 am
"Fat" bass is IMO more about processing / mixing than the synth itself.
Then maybe you are using the wrong synths for your basslines? Because the synths I use generally need to be tamed, not boosted.
4damind wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:22 am
Dune2/3 with a vintage saw and square sub & oscillator reset in combination with a little distortion (Blackbox, Quadrafuzz, Saturn,...). Boom!
Distortion is the enemy of the fat bottom end. I would never use it if I was trying to get really fat bass.
Anjuna Beats "scene".
The first preset in JP6K is "Anjuna Bass" and it's a cracker. I had assumed it was the name of the person who made it.
There are also other synth which can work quite well e.g. Tal Bassline (SH101 Emulation).
It can't be a very good emulation if it has a lot of bottom end. My SH101 is the last synth I'd ever have thought to use for basslines.
ferez21 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:13 am
Why do their phases need to be aligned? you actually want to avoid them being played at the same time, so their phases in relation to each other don't matter.
Locking the osc phases together will give you a much harder attack. The Legend is a good example. If you have it, try a bass patch with the phase sync off, then turn it on and you'll hear the difference. Absolutely essential for a good bassline, I reckon.
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KVRian

Topic Starter

1177 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Future

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:14 am

Release time of the amp section is first thing people feel as fatness,but in combination with other parameters may change totally that feeling and it's not magic solution for fatness.
Amp ADSR and Filter ADSR are interactive sections and both define fat,thin,bright,dull or whatever people hear as sound.
Filter decay define punch,but depends of how much is applied,amp sustain could give fatness,slow filter attack somehow feels like fatness also so on,this is from my sonic dictionary.
My understanding as designer is kind of altered chasing perfect parameters,but as audiophile i still can't say for sure why some stuff sit better in the mix than other,just like it or not as part of the mix,trying to make something similar or better,taking some part i like as staring point:)
For example i do some pretty decent acoustic or electric pianos,but still can't reproduce this sound or do something 'better',something still missing,which makes me continue trying differrent settings and combinations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQt_w7Mnnm8

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KVRian
1370 posts since 12 Oct, 2012

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:31 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:38 pm
ferez21 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:13 am
Why do their phases need to be aligned? you actually want to avoid them being played at the same time, so their phases in relation to each other don't matter.
Locking the osc phases together will give you a much harder attack. The Legend is a good example. If you have it, try a bass patch with the phase sync off, then turn it on and you'll hear the difference. Absolutely essential for a good bassline, I reckon.
We were discussing about the collision/phase cancellation between the bass and kick (and how it can damage the "fatness" of the bass), and i said that you don't need to worry about phases if they don't play at the same time, but agreed that reversing the phases wouldn't hurt anyway even if this is the case. Totally different context.

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KVRAF
2134 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am

How is there not a VST called, "Fat Bass"? What is wrong with this world?
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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KVRAF
5418 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:14 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:38 pm
4damind wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:22 am
Dune2/3 with a vintage saw and square sub & oscillator reset in combination with a little distortion (Blackbox, Quadrafuzz, Saturn,...). Boom!
Distortion is the enemy of the fat bottom end. I would never use it if I was trying to get really fat bass.
Well, there are different opinions about distortion on the bass. A lot of trance people used to swear by Cubase's Quadrafuzz. In the meantime you can see more often Fabfilter Saturn or other well known plugins like Blackbox from Plugin Alliance being used there.
Just as there are different opinions about Waves RBass or MaxxBass.
As for the processing, you just have to try different things yourself and then decide what makes sense.
Anjuna Beats "scene".
The first preset in JP6K is "Anjuna Bass" and it's a cracker. I had assumed it was the name of the person who made it.
Yes, this is certainly from the Anjunabeats universe. A label of "Above & Beyond" who also do a weekly radio streaming show "Trance around the world" (TATW). Many of the tracks played there often have a certain similar sound and arrangements, where you sometimes think that everyone is just copying each other ;)
Some presets are even from some of these people that are played there... and therefore then often the name "Anjuna Bass", "Anjuna Pluck" or whatever found in some presets of known synth.

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GRRRRRRR!
11946 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:38 pm

ferez21 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:31 am
We were discussing about the collision/phase cancellation between the bass and kick (and how it can damage the "fatness" of the bass)
You were but that's not how I read the initial post to which you responded, which seemed to talk about the two things as separate items. Therefore, I read the follow-up question as being about the phase in the bass timbre.
4damind wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:14 am
Well, there are different opinions about distortion on the bass. A lot of trance people used to swear by Cubase's Quadrafuzz. In the meantime you can see more often Fabfilter Saturn or other well known plugins like Blackbox from Plugin Alliance being used there.
These are what are known as useless opinions because you only have to use your ears to hear how any kind of distortion will kill the bottom end. If they are doing it, then they are almost certainly boosting the bottom end afterwards, it ain't gonna be fat otherwise.
Yes, this is certainly from the Anjunabeats universe. A label of "Above & Beyond" who also do a weekly radio streaming show "Trance around the world" (TATW). Many of the tracks played there often have a certain similar sound and arrangements, where you sometimes think that everyone is just copying each other ;)
That sounds like every dance genre to me because if you do anything different, you aren't in that genre any more. It's one of the many things I hate about dance music. That much of it came from the music I love makes it doubly sad.
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KVRAF
6971 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:03 pm

surreal wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 12:18 pm
Uhe Ace
This is it.

KVRian
1210 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:38 pm
4damind wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:14 am
Well, there are different opinions about distortion on the bass. A lot of trance people used to swear by Cubase's Quadrafuzz. In the meantime you can see more often Fabfilter Saturn or other well known plugins like Blackbox from Plugin Alliance being used there.
These are what are known as useless opinions because you only have to use your ears to hear how any kind of distortion will kill the bottom end. If they are doing it, then they are almost certainly boosting the bottom end afterwards, it ain't gonna be fat otherwise.
I use Saturn 2 on every (psytrance) bass that I make and Black Box and or VSM also get plenty of use too and they have plenty of bottom end or rather my basses have an appropriate amount of low end, without any EQ post processing. The kick is usually providing the majority of very low sub energy, for most modern psytrance genres anyway and it's common practice to actually reduce the level of the fundamental, to compensate. A lot of the "fatness" in a trance bass is in the upper bass and lower mid region, which is one of the reasons to use Saturn or Quadrafuzz in the first place. Most of the time, producers aren't driving any one of the bands, least of all the lowest band, to retain low end power specifically. Multiband distortion processing for trance bass is all about the mid range colour that minimum phase crossovers impart on the single signal. Plugins like Black Box and VSM are used for subtle saturation effects, to bring out more crunch and help the bass poke through densely layered trance arrangements, not for full on distortion and again, careful attention is paid to ensure the low end isn't compromised in the process.

You would know this if you produced this style of music, but you don't, so your input here is what's known as a useless opinion.
Always Read the Manual!

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KVRAF
5418 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:07 am

PieBerger wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 pm
The kick is usually providing the majority of very low sub energy, for most modern psytrance genres anyway and it's common practice to actually reduce the level of the fundamental, to compensate...
Yes, apparently it's also not uncommon to lower the level of the fundamental while raising the 2nd harmonic (1 octave above).
Probably this goes a bit in the direction of what MaxxBass/RBass does or when using (multiband) distortion.
There are at least some interesting ideas for processing bass/kick.

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GRRRRRRR!
11946 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:44 am

PieBerger wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 pm
I use Saturn 2 on every (psytrance) bass that I make and Black Box and or VSM also get plenty of use too and they have plenty of bottom end or rather my basses have an appropriate amount of low end, without any EQ post processing.
We're not talking about "appropriate" though, are we? We're talking about FAT bass. Did you really pay $154 for a distortion? I've probably got more than 20 different distortion plugins and I'd be surprised if they cost me that much, all up.
Most of the time, producers aren't driving any one of the bands, least of all the lowest band, to retain low end power specifically. Multiband distortion processing for trance bass is all about the mid range colour that minimum phase crossovers impart on the single signal. Plugins like Black Box and VSM are used for subtle saturation effects, to bring out more crunch and help the bass poke through densely layered trance arrangements, not for full on distortion and again, careful attention is paid to ensure the low end isn't compromised in the process.
So now you're agreeing with me.
You would know this if you produced this style of music
No, I wouldn't because I don't work to formulae and I don't do things just because that's what everyone else is doing. If I want to emphasise a certain frequency range in any patch, I do it by balancing the filter parameters, no need for effects. You turn up the resonance to push up the frequencies around the cutoff, then you control which frequencies by balancing the cutoff value with env modulation. The more you reduce the cutoff and raise the env mod, the lower the frequencies are that get boosted. Of course, it won't work with a Moog filter, it has to be a good one. Adding saturation or distortion is only going to make your dense arrangement muddier, it's not going to help anything. You can drive the oscillators pre-filter, so you get that fatness where you can clean it up with the filter but I'd never put any saturation or distortion on a bassline post-filter.
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