Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!

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KVRAF
19456 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:04 am
I cant personally see any reason why I would want to work on a Live project in Bitwig (if I owned Live) and I cant really see how it would help people move old projects across if they wanted to swap completely
Of course it would help people move old projects across... Duh.

I'd happily work on one of my old Live projects in Bitwig, cause for me, Bitwig is a more enjoyable and satisfying DAW to work with. Which of course is why I use Bitwig and have no interest in using Live anymore.

KVRist
469 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:40 am

I have an Akai Force that exports Live projects as well. I hope that Bitwig will at least be able to load those files correctly at some point. This would help a lot.

KVRian
659 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:52 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:04 am
Live is far more prolific than Bitwig and if collaboration (with Live projects) is your thing, you may be better of owning Live as well...I cant personally see any reason why I would want to work on a Live project in Bitwig (if I owned Live) and I cant really see how it would help people move old projects across if they wanted to swap completely, but it does let you access the hardware stuff that is using Live Project Files...Bitwig is tapping in to Live's existing ecosystem.
I find Bitwig's interface just to be better overall so if I had a choice between Live and Bitwig I would choose Bitwig. Even with all the features in Live that I think Bitwig should have (audio quantization, better warping workflow, better piano roll, etc) and me not exactly jiving with the pricing structure, its still more enjoyable (imo) to use than Live and that's really what comes down to for me. That's probably because Bitwig resembles something like a traditional DAW (like S1,Logic, or Cubase) while still keeping what made Live special. So it's the best of both worlds in that regard. I rarely use clip/session view so the arrangement view is the most important thing to me and I absolutely hate the way Live's arrange view works.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

KVRian
659 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:55 am

Benutzername wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:40 am
I have an Akai Force that exports Live projects as well. I hope that Bitwig will at least be able to load those files correctly at some point. This would help a lot.
Yeah. That was fixed in the latest Bitwig beta they seem to open now. Keep in mind that Akai's ALS export only does either midi or audio clips. It's still convenient to have all the audio bounced down into a clip.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

KVRian
1422 posts since 19 Aug, 2009

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:30 am

Benutzername wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:40 am
I have an Akai Force that exports Live projects as well. I hope that Bitwig will at least be able to load those files correctly at some point. This would help a lot.
It is fixed now, but it is kinda limited as you only get audio clips and midi clips.

Still it can be quite useful IMO.

Edit: it was already said by apoclypse
Last edited by pc999 on Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 am
SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:04 am
I cant personally see any reason why I would want to work on a Live project in Bitwig (if I owned Live) and I cant really see how it would help people move old projects across if they wanted to swap completely
Of course it would help people move old projects across... Duh.

I'd happily work on one of my old Live projects in Bitwig, cause for me, Bitwig is a more enjoyable and satisfying DAW to work with. Which of course is why I use Bitwig and have no interest in using Live anymore.
No point for me as you don't get Live's racks, instruments, fx etc. This would be the reason I was in Live anyway! If all you want to do is play clips back, I think Live 11 is better at that (Scene Follow Actions etc). Personally I also find most of Live Suites stock fx to be better quality (and far more interesting) than Bitwig's, so would miss them.

I also only use/arrange with 'clips' with PUSH2 which only really functions the way I expect it to with Live, so can't see any reason to move projects from Live to Bitwig.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRist
348 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:14 pm

I find the project import good if you are changing to bitwig from them and want to carry over your project. Otherwise it's not really worth it imho

KVRist
33 posts since 12 Apr, 2021

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:44 pm

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 am
pdxindy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 am
SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:04 am
I cant personally see any reason why I would want to work on a Live project in Bitwig (if I owned Live) and I cant really see how it would help people move old projects across if they wanted to swap completely
Of course it would help people move old projects across... Duh.

I'd happily work on one of my old Live projects in Bitwig, cause for me, Bitwig is a more enjoyable and satisfying DAW to work with. Which of course is why I use Bitwig and have no interest in using Live anymore.
No point for me as you don't get Live's racks, instruments, fx etc. This would be the reason I was in Live anyway! If all you want to do is play clips back, I think Live 11 is better at that (Scene Follow Actions etc). Personally I also find most of Live Suites stock fx to be better quality (and far more interesting) than Bitwig's, so would miss them.

I also only use/arrange with 'clips' with PUSH2 which only really functions the way I expect it to with Live, so can't see any reason to move projects from Live to Bitwig.
Shows how different opinions are as I think what you can do within Bitwig with FX is way more interesting to me than anything in Live.. I am honestly starting to think there is almost no fx sound I want (apart from really out there things like things like Crusher-X) that I can't make in Bitwig now and I have owned an obscene amount of kit over the years. Obviously more work but more satisfying as well.

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:25 pm

Lenco wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:44 pm
SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 am
pdxindy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 am
SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:04 am
I cant personally see any reason why I would want to work on a Live project in Bitwig (if I owned Live) and I cant really see how it would help people move old projects across if they wanted to swap completely
Of course it would help people move old projects across... Duh.

I'd happily work on one of my old Live projects in Bitwig, cause for me, Bitwig is a more enjoyable and satisfying DAW to work with. Which of course is why I use Bitwig and have no interest in using Live anymore.
No point for me as you don't get Live's racks, instruments, fx etc. This would be the reason I was in Live anyway! If all you want to do is play clips back, I think Live 11 is better at that (Scene Follow Actions etc). Personally I also find most of Live Suites stock fx to be better quality (and far more interesting) than Bitwig's, so would miss them.

I also only use/arrange with 'clips' with PUSH2 which only really functions the way I expect it to with Live, so can't see any reason to move projects from Live to Bitwig.
Shows how different opinions are as I think what you can do within Bitwig with FX is way more interesting to me than anything in Live.. I am honestly starting to think there is almost no fx sound I want (apart from really out there things like things like Crusher-X) that I can't make in Bitwig now and I have owned an obscene amount of kit over the years. Obviously more work but more satisfying as well.
What you can do maybe, not necessarily what I can do ;-)

I still thing Live has the edge, especially if you like your effects left field and pre built like the ‘inspired by nature stuff’ or Pitchloop89 for example

Can you really build Convolution and impulse response based fx, Spectral resonators or physical modelling fx like Corpus? Plus MAX can do audio and midi (and video!) fx, so the possibilities are genuinely endless in Live in all departments, not just audio….and there are about 5000 ready made rack devices on MAX.com!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRAF
19456 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:27 pm

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 am
pdxindy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 am
SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:04 am
I cant personally see any reason why I would want to work on a Live project in Bitwig (if I owned Live) and I cant really see how it would help people move old projects across if they wanted to swap completely
Of course it would help people move old projects across... Duh.

I'd happily work on one of my old Live projects in Bitwig, cause for me, Bitwig is a more enjoyable and satisfying DAW to work with. Which of course is why I use Bitwig and have no interest in using Live anymore.
No point for me as you don't get Live's racks, instruments, fx etc. This would be the reason I was in Live anyway! If all you want to do is play clips back, I think Live 11 is better at that (Scene Follow Actions etc). Personally I also find most of Live Suites stock fx to be better quality (and far more interesting) than Bitwig's, so would miss them.
I use Bitwig's Instruments and FX more than I ever used the ones in Live.

One reason is because of Bitwig's modulation system which adds so much to them. Live cannot come close to Bitwig's modulation in terms of agile workflow and capability.
Another reason is because of the Selector devices. No real equivalent in Live.
And a 3rd reason is the nesting options. Not possible in Live. I can do stuff in Bitwig that is hard to find even in VST's.

And last but not least. The Grid. Nothing close to it in Live. Just the Grid alone I use more than I ever used all of Live's instruments combined. Live's instruments are fairly limited in terms of modulation.

User avatar
KVRAF
19456 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:37 pm

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:25 pm
Can you really build Convolution and impulse response based fx, Spectral resonators or physical modelling fx like Corpus? Plus MAX can do audio and midi (and video!) fx, so the possibilities are genuinely endless in Live in all departments, not just audio….and there are about 5000 ready made rack devices on MAX.com!
I have VST's to cover what Bitwig cannot do (like convolution reverb, etc.).

And what you see as a positive attribute - 5000 max devices - I see as an unappealing time suck. I want nothing to do with all that. Plus a lot of the best M4L devices cost money. At that point it is like buying a VST/AU plugin except the plugins can be used in any DAW. I'd rather just buy regular plugins.

KVRAF
7707 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:02 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:37 pm
SLiC wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:25 pm
Can you really build Convolution and impulse response based fx, Spectral resonators or physical modelling fx like Corpus? Plus MAX can do audio and midi (and video!) fx, so the possibilities are genuinely endless in Live in all departments, not just audio….and there are about 5000 ready made rack devices on MAX.com!
I have VST's to cover what Bitwig cannot do (like convolution reverb, etc.).

And what you see as a positive attribute - 5000 max devices - I see as an unappealing time suck. I want nothing to do with all that. Plus a lot of the best M4L devices cost money. At that point it is like buying a VST/AU plugin except the plugins can be used in any DAW. I'd rather just buy regular plugins.
I was responding to your post where you said you don't need external VST fx in Bigwig and you can make anything you need? Bitwig only has pretty basic FX which can be made far more interesting with modulation and the Grid, Live has far more interesting complete FX out of the box, many 1000's of them for free (or premium instruments for like 10E with any copy protection that can be opened in MAX and tinkered with/customised)- for example:

https://isotonikstudios.com/product/pathways/

I am using Live 100% native (no external VSTi or FX) as it just locks' in like hardware with PUSH that way. Lovely animated feedback graphics and sensibly mapped controls for everything, every time. zero set up! To the best of my knowledge you cant do anything like this in Bitwig?

https://youtu.be/oi9uePsyJdY

I personally don't see any detriment in having the 'option' to but cheap racks stuff made by experts, indeed I think at some point Bigwig will be exactly the same, it just doesn't have the user base yet, bitwiggers.com is already very similar to maxforlive.com other than the amount of users/devices.

Ultimately the 'Grid' has the advantage of being simple and well integrated. It is however very limited at the moment (audio only, no real user interfaces, no ability to add low level code to make your own modules) and is no where near as powerful as M4L...but if you dint like MAX I guess that's irrelevant! MAX was around for 20 years before the Grid was 'born'. The Grid will get better of that I have no doubt but can an you honestly say you could get anything close to the example devices shown here with the grid in its current form?

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

9375 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:59 am

I wonder where's Push3?

Just yesterday they were looking for "supply chain manager" and some weeks ago for "firmware specialist", so hopefully it's out this year :)
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRian
1210 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:04 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:59 am
I wonder where's Push3?

Just yesterday they were looking for "supply chain manager" and some weeks ago for "firmware specialist", so hopefully it's out this year :)
I hope not, my Push 2 will get jealous and I can't afford any new big gear purchases this year :lol:
Always Read the Manual!

User avatar
KVRAF

Topic Starter

9375 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:09 am

PieBerger wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:04 am
antic604 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:59 am
I wonder where's Push3?

Just yesterday they were looking for "supply chain manager" and some weeks ago for "firmware specialist", so hopefully it's out this year :)
I hope not, my Push 2 will get jealous and I can't afford any new big gear purchases this year :lol:
I can always sell a DAW or two to help finance that :P
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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