DSPplug Omega Width: One of the best now available for $4

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRian
794 posts since 7 Apr, 2019 from Canada

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:08 pm

Stereo width is something we take for granted, and we're always looking to find the middle ground.
But what we'll curse is when what should be simple is not simple.

Here's a youtube video where I compare the built in stereo width functions to My new plugin available here, on sale for $4.00 USD.

https://youtu.be/9KulUrDbMmo

I think anyone who uses this will be pleased that there's something so forward thinking around and easy to use. There will often be improvements to it, especially given the fact that this algorithm will become the staple stereo width component that I use.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/dspplu ... oz-records

Therefore, this product will come soon in a few flavours with some added saturation possibilities and cool imagery. I hope you enjoy the video, even for the sake of just having a laugh at the expense of DAW manufacturers; it's amusing.
DSPplug Products https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/dspplug
DSPplug Linktree https://linktr.ee/dspplug
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KVRist
106 posts since 13 May, 2018

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:24 pm

You've misunderstood what the stereo separation in the stereo enhancer does. It changes the mid/side levels which are still available when panning something completely to the left/right channel. Also its "maximum separation and merging is around 98%" which explains why there is a different level of the left/right channel and not a pure mid or side signal.

That's especially funny because you talk about people not understanding their effects or DAW and that you're the best :lol:

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KVRian

Topic Starter

794 posts since 7 Apr, 2019 from Canada

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:31 am

marzelli wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:24 pm
You've misunderstood what the stereo separation in the stereo enhancer does. It changes the mid/side levels which are still available when panning something completely to the left/right channel. Also its "maximum separation and merging is around 98%" which explains why there is a different level of the left/right channel and not a pure mid or side signal.

That's especially funny because you talk about people not understanding their effects or DAW and that you're the best :lol:
No it doesn't. Stereo has nothing to do with mid-side. Mid-side was an invention of Alan Blumlein (the inventor of stereo) which only uses one side and not two of a stereo signal so as to eliminate phase.
It uses two channels because the mono is made to use half the bandwidth of a mono signal; it is the result of a stereo signal's left and right being summed to one channel. Next, for the right channel it is merely the left channel.

Once the tape, or storage medium of the era was employed the mono (mid) from the left channel and the right channel (side) would be played also and that signal was duplicated and then set to have an inverted phase. It is this effect which created the illusion of stereo but avoided phase cancellation.

Split stereo means in actuality that neither side will interfere with the other which is why it referred to as being non-interleaved or dual mono. Please check your facts before posting negativity about Me or My product, but it's a free world - and I'm free to say that you're wrong.

Dual mono does not reflect either channel having anything to do with the other, and notably in the case of mid/side would you wish in the case of "mid" and "side" that the signals were inter-mingling also so that there would be little differentiation between mid and side? Or is that counter intuitive to you.

The math utilized in the digital spectrum is not the very math that decides signal division, it's merely an added effect after the fact - due to the fact that in the digital spectrum; there will be little interleaving given that is a non physical medium that supersedes physical constraints.

I've been in this business a while, as a professional. Thank you for feedback; any is always appreciated,
DSPplug Products https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/dspplug
DSPplug Linktree https://linktr.ee/dspplug
Voiceover, Design, Ghost Production, Ghost Writing services.

KVRAF
21106 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:47 am

kingozrecords wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:31 am
. Stereo has nothing to do with mid-side. Mid-side was an invention of Alan Blumlein (the inventor of stereo) which only uses one side and not two of a stereo signal so as to eliminate phase.
It uses two channels because the mono is made to use half the bandwidth of a mono signal; it is the result of a stereo signal's left and right being summed to one channel. Next, for the right channel it is merely the left channel.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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KVRAF
4440 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:42 am

kingozrecords wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:31 am
I've been in this business a while, as a professional. Thank you for feedback; any is always appreciated,
Seven years. Since 2014. Big whip. I've been in this game for 40+ years and I still learning.

Check out this guy's self-assessment @7:10: "It is the best stereo width product ever designed. Any maker of a DAW can hire me and probably the first DAW maker who hires me is going to have the best DAW. Let's face it, I am one of the best in North America - I'm probably one of the best in the World. That's because I've been training for about 7 years day in day out..."

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KVRian

Topic Starter

794 posts since 7 Apr, 2019 from Canada

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:54 am

Stereo width - It either works or it doesn't. Your desire to call somebody out as a braggart does not reflect that. My products work while others cannot live up to the same expectation. I say instead of trying to attack My reputation you instead demand the same quality and reverence for meaningful and perfunctory result. If a braggart has matched his brags with results then brag on braggart.

Anything less is a sign that you and others like you are satisfied with a product that is less than satisfactory. While I am not and that is where we disagree. Tell everyone you can, you're only overlooking that I've done what so many large companies have not, as a small company and as a stalwart service here at KVR audio who is always available for customer service and advice; a constructive and dominant force helping to lead the audio world to satisfactory result.

Though I am the first to attempt this new, constructive advance with stereo width I'm sure that I will not be the last. I find that refreshing and positive. It could be the next person which attempts to do so does it better than Me. If such a thing were to occur I would be humbled and enthused to only better My own method.

I am part of change for the better in this world of audio and will continue to be, not as a hindrance to it by embellishing and overlooking shortcomings.
DSPplug Products https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/dspplug
DSPplug Linktree https://linktr.ee/dspplug
Voiceover, Design, Ghost Production, Ghost Writing services.

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KVRAF
4440 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:59 am

kingozrecords wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:54 am
I am part of change for the better in this world of audio and will continue to be, not as a hindrance to it by embellishing and overlooking shortcomings.
Then you need to look in the mirror and work on what you see.

KVRAF
4126 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:13 am

oh king oz, please never change
Image

KVRist
106 posts since 13 May, 2018

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:53 am

Ploki wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:13 am
oh king oz, please never change
+1, nothing left to say

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

794 posts since 7 Apr, 2019 from Canada

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:29 pm

Maybe I like to try and shake up the audio jungle a little in the hope of progress.
Here's My video explaining My stance on that. Much of the reason is in-finite teaching amongst colleges and education institutes teaching audio engineering.

https://youtu.be/IkFwbLiPOS8
Seeing Me in this video is like a mirror because I got an HD webcam, still learning to use it. The video will be uploaded and checked in roughly 15 mins, bedtime.
advanced stereo copy.jpg
zoom in
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KVRAF
4236 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:48 pm

Thanks for the free laughs
Dunning kruger's finest :lol:
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRer
10 posts since 5 Nov, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:48 pm

kingozrecords wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:31 am
No it doesn't. Stereo has nothing to do with mid-side. Mid-side was an invention of Alan Blumlein (the inventor of stereo) which only uses one side and not two of a stereo signal so as to eliminate phase.
You should look into this further. A traditional stereo width tool (just intermixing of channels, no delays, etc.) is exactly equivalent to varying the level of the side signal.

0% width = no side
50% width = halve side
200% width = double side

Proof:
Image

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

794 posts since 7 Apr, 2019 from Canada

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:53 pm

It's because it is reducing harmonic distortion by interleaving. and while that is a good effect; it's not necessarily stereo width scientifically. It's an effect, a cool one.

That's why think forced mono -> stereo width mono to stereo -> stereo width stereo to wide stereo -> forced split stereo by separation.

That way this ability to do away with harmonic distortion can be available as a tool and yet for those wanting a quick fix, let's say for a full tilt right sound effect, they can do that also, or they can overcome problems with things like microphones or mono filters only affecting the left for instance.

These tools are meant to be fast, and the more forward thinking and easy to understand they are the better. Thanks for sharing the imagery; for I have realized the same for a long time. And that's been My point from the beginning of this post; that stereo width is indeed more like mono (and mid side) then it is stereo. Beyond that to true whacky beatles 60's album weird is My new method making that easy.

Looking into it further just means understanding that object orientated programming has been impossible for decades and the method we use is the product of a technology gap. But now that tech is possible with the advent of float level math creating a steady measurement that can be gauged to allow reaction based upon its state. What we're seeing is the realization of the 1950's in action.

Here's also an update regarding a patch I'm now implementing for cubase (blind because no install)
https://youtu.be/jVXm11YQNlQ
DSPplug Products https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/dspplug
DSPplug Linktree https://linktr.ee/dspplug
Voiceover, Design, Ghost Production, Ghost Writing services.

KVRer
17 posts since 23 Apr, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:16 pm

You seem to be unclear on the function of the stereo width control, of mid-side encoding, and of some terminology. First of all, "interleaved" and "dual mono" are not qualitative characteristics of a signal. "Interleaved" stereo relates to how the information is stored in the file system, namely as a single monolithic audio file with every other digital word representing one channel or the other; it emphatically does not refer to a width-attenuated stereo signal. "Dual mono" can refer to either storing the left and right channel as discrete audio files, or alternatively to separate processing of either channel, e.g., a stereo compressor with an unlinked threshold control. (In the analog domain, stereo signals are always stored as pairs of tracks.) It definitely does not in any way refer to some superlative form of stereo signal. "Stereo", incidentally, refers to a signal spanning a left-to-right sound stage; it doesn't indicate how that information was captured/produced nor stored. "Mono" of course refers to a single monaural source: it requires just 1 audio file/tape track, mixer channel, and/or speaker--in a stereophonic playback environment, monaural signals are represented by sending identical signals to both the left and right speakers. (Hence, a 2-channel audio file with each channel containing identical information is not stereo, but still mono, just taking up a slightly profligate amount of disk space.)

This works because the stereo image is strictly a function of phase differences between the signals exiting either speaker: this is true independently of whether the stereo information is stored as discrete left and right signals as in traditional stereo, or MS, which is an encoded format wherein one channel carries the sum signal (L+R) and the second channel carries the difference (L+(-R)). (The decoding process involves sending an equal amount of the mid signal to both speakers, the side signal to the left speaker, and a polarity-inverted copy thereof to the right speaker.) The advantage of MS is being able to alter the center or side images independently of one another which is not possible in traditional L/R stereo (to wit, "mid" does not mean "mono" per se: it is the mono-compatible center image component of a stereo signal occupying 2 channels just as with L/R stereo--"mono" is a monaural signal occupying just a single channel); and this includes adjusting their relative volumes, which equates to widening or narrowing the stereo image: increasing the level of the side signal (or decreasing the level of the mid signal) makes the image wider, and vice versa.

That's what the stereo width control in the FL plugin is doing--encoding LR to MS, altering the volume of the M and/or S signals, and decoding back from MS to LR. If you're just sending a hard-panned left signal with dead silence on the right and increasing the width, you'll end up with a louder left signal (in your video, it looked like the process was adding about 3dB). The same principle applies when you're narrowing it, although the resulting mid signal must be attenuated at some point as well, otherwise you'd end up with a louder center image than you started with (cf. pan laws). Think of it like this: if we process a mono signal (let's substitute a constant linear amplitude of 1 in place of a varying music signal for the sake of ease of illustration) and try to use the plugin to reduce the width of that, then without attenuating we'd end up with a scenario like [L = 1; R = 1; M = L+R = 1+1 = 2], which represents a 200%, or 6dB, increase to the input signal. This is why the "narrowed" signal in your video was so much quieter (based on your demonstration, I'd spitball the algorithm FL's using attenuates the center image by up to 4.5dB)--you were effectively partially averaging a nearly full-scale signal with silence resulting in a certain amount of attenuation. As an earlier poster pointed out, the Width control is bounded at about 98%, which accounts for why the left and right channels aren't quite the same level in the narrowed signal in your video. That is a design choice you may reasonably disagree with, but it's not a fault in the control's function. This all kind of underpins why the demonstration you posted is not a good one--you're effectively working with a monaural signal, just panned hard to one side--there are no mutually varying phase relationships between the left and right channels, just a left channel which can either be made louder or panned toward center and attenuated a little, which is exactly as your demonstration showed--there's no actual perceptual "width" there to manipulate.

I won't speak to the efficacy of your plugin, since I'm not quite sure what problem it's meant to solve, but you're clearly using it to address something different than what the FL plugin was designed for; and I'm afraid some of the terminology you're using ("interleaved", "split stereo", "dual mono", etc.) is muddled at best and obscurantist at worst. Based on this, and further your assertion that stereo and MS have nothing to do with one another, your very strange description of MS, and frankly bizarre pronouncements like "stereo width is indeed more like mono (and mid side) then it is stereo", I'd politely suggest you have a little more homework to do on the subject.

KVRist
495 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:33 pm

Gruh wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:16 pm
You seem to be unclear on the function of the stereo width control, of mid-side encoding, and of some terminology.........
Sorry for my irony but... How often do you argue with advertisements? This pastime is vain.

P.S. But your explanation is beyond question.

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