Changes in IK Multimedia license transfer policy?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
5933 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Down the Withywindle

Post Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:10 am

I like a lot of their stuff, but now that I've watched long enough to know their M.O., I've become very wary. Perhaps they are too profitable to care about getting roasted on public forums. If any of the issues that I've seen brought up online have negatively impacted their profits, it certainly hasn't been reflected in positive changes towards its customer base.
Jai Guru Deva....Om.....

KVRist
163 posts since 8 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:36 am

I just wanted to say that regardering customer treatment: it really doesn't matter if a representative of the company thinks no rule changes have been made and answers have been given. By the volume of confused longterm customers you can tell something is not clear and people are unhappy. It might seem that if nothing has changed, these rules have been handled with greater leniency in the past, maybe they weren't managed by the backend itself.

I don't think it is IKs job to make people on KVR happy (although it could be a good idea), being able to give out a clear statement is just a matter of professionality. Something like: "Licenses bundled with hardware products, cannot be sold seperately(?or at all). A license bought from our store can be sold once, when buying transfer credit and will become NFR after that." There appears to have been a change in leniency of handling policy transfers (as I mentioned) but no matter if so or not, at the very least statement of the sort: "Transferability status of licences hasn't changed in the last years, our new system just surfaces this information explicitly now. We are sorry for any confusion this might have caused" should be in order.

This statement by Ryan is just a bit funny because its a copout and really doesn't answer anyones question about the value of their licenses. It gives the idea that IK doesn't have exact rules in place.
Users who have purchased an item second hand (through use of an LTC) will not see the option for transfer in their account. Due to this, these users must contact IK support for assistance. Each case will be looked into to see how we can help. I do want to assure you guys that no policy changes were made without warning.
This part of the EULA is also funny:
4.5 Software Transfer

You may transfer your rights as Licensee of the software or any IK Multimedia product, as licensed to you under this agreement only with purchasing a license transfer on IK Multimedia official website. The above-mentioned transfer license can be combined with a single “IK Multimedia Product”, and just only once.
That is because of the switchup between "transfer license" and "license transfer". Is the transfer license the transfer credit or is it the transferred license? What I, as a third party, can glean from the current conversation:
  • No changes in EULA have been made
  • License Transfers are handled on a case by case basis
This is not a satisfactory answer. Why? I value licenses based on their expected resale value. A NI/Arturia/Izotope(at least before sub model) license was a safe bet because you can just simply resell it. Their products are popular AND resellable. This adds value. With that their products are more worth than an iLok based license, which is more worth than a license from PA or Melda.

I think resellability is important with expensive music software licenses. The reason being: yes you can get alot of information about a product, you can sometimes demo a product but if you really want to use it or not shows itself a couple months after owning the product. I think bad resellability and especially an unclear policy sets the bar of entry much higher for potential customers. Handling NFR status on a case by case basis / haveing an unclear policy is sure to produce alot of animosity -- its just too much of a bother (plus might create the feeling of 'being robbed' of something, if you had different expectations). With that I think expectation management should be a priority no matter the actual legal status and implications of a policy.

edit: a good example of good management with a no value policy is Xfer

KVRAF
1729 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:23 am

I'm not sure I'd hold up Xfer as a positive example, didn't they change it retroactively, without informing users? https://xferrecords.com/forums/general/ ... um-license

KVRAF
22347 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:18 pm

"Here and any other third-party forums aren't the best medium for getting technical support,"*
ok, we could go to your forum and get posts deleted instead. snark aside, quite an assumption that everybody is trying to use this forum as the support channel per se. And I did state one issue at said forum, which was deleted and there wasn't a lot of color involved. No one wanted to hear it. The rep here when I brought it up blamed the issue on the host, which this one evidently IKM doesn't test for like at all (it sounded like they'd never heard of it, five years in). And last year the same issue, an update changes the internal ID of TRacks plugins. Every instance of it is borked, it has to all be reupped. It's never IKM's responsibility, then it was "They're (VSL with VE Pro) doing it wrong.". it's a straight technical issue that was changed, I don't know why other than a cultural problem (laziness/stupidity/disorganized). Not the only developer to do whack shit like that, and not the only one where regardless of the stupidity their policies are always correct. but... that one thing alone means trust is impossible.

*: this was sheer dodging btfw
Last edited by jancivil on Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
7329 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:00 pm

The IK Forum is not a medium for direct technical support either. It's actually the first rule you read and agree to when registering for the forum. Sorry if that was unclear. I've attached the Support navigation element and the menu that appears below it. That should help point people with issues in the right direction.

KVRist
163 posts since 8 Dec, 2014

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:20 pm

I don't want to ride on this too much but I have to leave this one here: If you want to use SampleTank you better download 100 single zip archives and extract them manually. If you don't do it in 90 days you buy download credit for 10$. If you want to sell a hardware unit, you pay 20$ license tranfer fee. Which, I wouldn't have even bothered registering, if I'd known :D. Between their authorization manager, product manager and store environments for TRacks and so on everything is quite confusing. My account has Sample Tank 4 Se, CS and max. I don't know why they are listed seperately. There are alot of hoops to jump through to use their products.

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KVRAF
7329 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:48 pm

You have 180 days to back up before you would need sound reactivation, IK Product Manager handles sound downloads and installs so you don't need to to that manually. To get drivers/firmware there is no transfer fee necessary on hardware. Authorization Manager is for legacy software.
EXPOSED (as sounding ******* fantastic!)
T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

rj0
KVRist
450 posts since 18 Sep, 2010

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:24 pm

Peter - IK Multimedia wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:48 pm
You have 180 days to back up before you would need sound reactivation, ...
Wow! Just wow! As a long-time (over a decade) owner of IK products (and KVR member), this thread is making it clear that IK has lost it's way. There's some serious leveling needed here to get straight with the entire community.

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KVRAF
4447 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:50 pm

I do automated double redundant backups of everything thanks to macPOS Time Machine. So I have no issues with these requirments from IK. I also have TRacks 5 Max so I am ok with having everything installed. I dont own Amplitube but have it installed anyway just to fart around with in demo mode. Again, no big deal for me. I can't say there is anything about IK that bothers me. :borg:

rj0
KVRist
450 posts since 18 Sep, 2010

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:54 pm

rj0 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:24 pm
Peter - IK Multimedia wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:48 pm
You have 180 days to back up before you would need sound reactivation, ...
Wow! Just wow! As a long-time (over a decade) owner of IK products (and KVR member), this thread is making it clear that IK has lost it's way. There's some serious leveling needed here to get straight with the entire community.
Just to be a bit clearer, I'm responding to the thread more generally, especially the licensing changes, and the lack of transparency (and maybe even integrity) on that. (I consider sound reactivation to be one of the more minor IK annoyances that just adds to the sum.)

KVRAF
22347 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:58 pm

"So I have no issues with these requirments" ok, you do you, but objectively it's wrong, & it's the principle of the thing. Who does that, give you deadlines for stuff you bought and then nickel and dime you? Good to know, albeit I wouldn't be buying content from them in the first place. So anything tempts me it's colored by recognizing more f**k you 'tude from them, good for my purse it is. So is their representation here.

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