KVR Audio

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:05 pm

borrowed one from uni and all i can say is
YEEEEARGHMAAAAAOOOOOWWWWWWEEEEEOWWWOOOOWWWWWIIIEEEEES

and i made a cool sound that sounds like - SMLArRrRrRP

i havent got a clue what i'm doing but this thing is the best fun since the last best thing.

anyone know any good info resources for programming it?

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:07 pm

Try hooking up the plugs to your brain...modification kits are available.

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:13 pm

my brain is too close to melting point already thanks

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:16 pm

Online MS-20 manual here:

http://www.acrylnimbus.de/manual/

Great synth - love that filter, esp with overdrive...

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:11 pm

perfect, thanks dystonia

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:43 pm

A real one or the VST?

ahja · Post by **ahja** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:48 pm

mmmmmm... high resonance.

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:07 pm

real one krim

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:40 am

Saw one for sale last year and didn't have the cash...

Had an MS-10 a long time ago but it didn't have the same force as the 20, really.

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:33 am

how much do they go for these days?

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:47 am

splattabreakz wrote:how much do they go for these days?

The one I saw was $850 (in Canadian dollars). May be pricier elsewhere, or not.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:02 pm

Here's a couple of tips.

1. Route the line output back into the external input to overdrive the whole thing. Route the headphone output back into the external input to overdrive it even more (the headphones output is louder than the line out)....this way you'll get those really screaming brutal sounds out of it.

2. Reroute the ouput into the filter inputs for a similar but slightly different flavour of scream.

3.Stick patch leads from any "out" socket into any "in" socket in no particular order, with no particular methodology, tweak random knobs in any random manner.....and enjoy

4. Get a good midi/CV converter. Often you find 2nd hand MS20s for sale with some cheapo converter. I got a Kenton Pro4 which has a huge number of controller outs, and more importantly a huge number of parameters which can all be controlled over midi. A decent converter means you can automate almost anything on an MS20. With a decent Kenton, you can make it velocity sensitive for volume, control filter sweeps with aftertouch and mod wheel (both filters independently) and apply LFOs to resonance or modulation depth etc.
And that's important because I almost always find I start off with a sound....tweak it a little bit - then drastically alter some parameter to see how it will develop in the mix....by the time I finish, I cannot get back the original sound properly. That's one of those things that are intensely irritating, but at the same time so alluring about true analogues...no patch will ever sound the same and you can't store them. They make you play the synthesiser knobs and that can be a right bugger sometimes.

Also a good converter will allow you to control the S&H circuit tempo with it's pulse output, which again can save on converter outputs and extensive CC writing to control the individual elements of the filters etc.

5. Ring mod....don't bother mixing the ringmod with another oscillator. Use the ringmod oscillator on its own, but tweak the parameters of the second silent oscillator to change the ringmod sound. The ringmod on MS20s is one of it's real character things...almost unique apart from Yamaha CS series which sound very similar.

6. Don't forget if you use the external input to use the internal filters on external sounds.....you need to trigger the envelopes in time with your midi notes. If the envelopes aren't triggered, you won't get any filtering...or in fact any sound whatsoever.
So if you have a midi sequenced pattern coming from another synth or wherever...you'd have the synth sound going into the external input. You also need to send a copy of the pattern to the CV and gate ins. (It doesn't matter if you use the same notes...just the same timing and note lengths etc, so that the envelopes are triggered to open when the audio reaches the filters.)

7. Extreme fun......you can play the filters! Turn the output of both oscillators down to zero. You get no sound, right? Well...almost. Start cranking up the filter resonances...when they start to self oscillate you will get sound (sometimes even one that you can use musically) Then play around with all the other stuff and have fun with a pure analogue CV self-oscillating filter(s). Very very few VSTi can do that stuff well.

8. Super-duper extreme fun tip number 8 (and last one!) Whatever you do with an MS20...if you're playing around alot with the knobs, sweeping filters etc (at least when you're just playing for the fun of it, which you will do often)...patch in your best Delay FX and set feedback to anywhere above 75% and preferably as close to infinity you can get without screaming feedback. MS20s are so fluid and bubbly and sweet and ever-changing that huge delays really bring out all those sweet analogue subtleties. Turn the lights out, sequence a riff and play on those knobs

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:33 pm

nice one kritikon!!!! i only have it until wednesday so the midi stuff will have to wait until i get one of my own

i take it you have one of these then?

realmarco · Post by **realmarco** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:34 am

there are two ms20 at a local shop in my town..they^re both 1000 dollars canadian each

I Also saw a Korg PS3100
which is like 10 ms20 for 3000 $ www.sonicstate.com/synth/_inc/picview.cfm?synthid=478

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:56 pm

nice one kritikon!!!! i only have it until wednesday so the midi stuff will have to wait until i get one of my own i take it you have one of these then?

Oh yes

It's one of the few synths I won't sell, whatever the price (weeeeeeell...not unless it's a really silly price

). I'd sell off most of my others if I could be arsed (and also the market for synth here is pretty poor), such as the Rolands, but the MS20 has real character. I've only had a very limited play on the Legacy set, and it sounded pretty good...I might even buy it one day, but the all-analogues such as the MS series are a treasure because you're never quite sure what sound you're going to get out of them. And they're just plain fun and delight to use...simple as that.

Another good bit on the MS20s is that you can patch the output of one oscillator pitch into another. it gives usually totally unusable results in a musical sense, but some great and weird sounds if you use them on their own as sound FX. Completely and utterly unpredictable.

I've also played around with feeding the various outputs into the external pitch control thingy at the bottom of the patchbay. (Designed as a way to control the synth from another instrument...not via CV/gates, but from vocals or guitars etc). Apparently it's not very reliable in real terms, but you can get some weird scalings if you patch it from itself to itself.

Be warned though, that if you buy a 20, you'll also probably want the 10 as well. The MS10 actually had a different character. Similar filters, but a different beast altogether. The MS10 had a pulse wave that could be modulated (the MS20 doesn't...you have to do it manually by turning the knob only...a real shame of an omission I always thought). And the MS10 pulse was beautiful...it had a bigger range somehow - alot more capable of the reedy thin sounds and retained some sonic character at very thin pulse widths. The MS10, believe it or not, also had a far bigger bottom end. It could belt out absolutely huge basses, you could crank up the resonance and it never lost the bass content even when it was squealing like a pig. The MS20 loses its bass at resonance.

Having said that, I'd rather have a 20 than a 10 anyday if given a choice. The 20 is very stable with its tuning. The MS10 was most definitely not

And the MS20 is far more flexible.

By the way - try out some slightly detuned patches. Use 2 pulse waves, with the 2nd pulse slightly different width than the first to fatten it up. Then detune them ever so slightly. The result is a whole lot different from the type of detuned patch you get with VSTi and digital synths. It's not always very easy to use over other instruments because it'll sound obviously odd with its tuning, but it's a unique analogue thing. And it's got real power - as a lead line it'll blow any digital synth out of the water.

And back to the ringmod - again it doesn't sound like the ringmods you usually get on VSTi etc. It can be musically useable but very distinctive. Great for bass patches - the ringmod filters out some of the real lower end power, but still plays like a bass patch. Especially good if you use only the ringmod oscillator, turn down the 1st oscillator to zero. But then set the silent oscillator to very low octaves and play with the filters and resonance. I've heard no digital synth sound remotely anything like it. Then try playing with different octaves both with the ringmod osc and the silent one - gives some surprising results!

Oh bugger...I want to go play on mine now, but I'm at work