Why does Microsoft hate us (#@$ Windows 10)

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
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KVRian
1477 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:57 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:04 am
If you run your computer hooked up to the internet, you’re just going to have to deal with updates no matter what OS you’re using. Turn off auto updates and disconnect your computer from any internet/network and you’ll most likely never need to update if everything is working well.
Indeed, this is how i run my other two machines. To me they are fully functioning instruments (well oiled machines). It’s just my latest that lives on the net. I’ve been fortunate that i haven’t been force fed any seriously borked updates
gadgets an gizmos...make noise
https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness

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GRRRRRRR!
11878 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:09 pm

CrystalWizard wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:53 am
Perhaps, just perhaps our experiences are different. No, it’s not bullshit, it just “sounds like it” to you.
Your bullshit is in characterising Edge as "crap", when it is probably better than either Firefox or Chrome.
Daily, i’m asked “do i want to change my default browser to edge?-“fk no i dont.
I get the same on both macOS (Safari) and Android (Chrome), and also on the very rare occasions I try to use any Google services. The difference is that I actually use Edge because there is no reason not to. i.e. No reason to add bloat to my system by installing another browser. It's not a Windows-specific thing, it's something they all do.
Almost daily do i want to use the pile of crap Office 365? No thanks, i’ve got LibreOffice. Not as frequently “do i want to activate one drive? No, the cloud is “someone elses computer.”
I don't get that and I don't use office, either. I do use OneDrive, as a means of sharing files with my bandmate, but I don't allow it to sync anything with my PC. Maybe you need to spend 5 minutes getting your preferences right, instead of ignoring prompts to set it up?
I guess i should have kept a list of all the crap i’ve removed but to be fair much of that (not nearly all) was thrown on there by the manufacturer not Windoze.
This was an unexpected bonus of buying a gaming machine - even Dell don't fill it with crap. What I noticed with my previous one, an Acer, was that a lot of things that seemed like bloat were really just icons that would link to an on line installer for those things if you clicked on them, so I imagine the 3rd party companies were paying Acer to put those icons in Start and all you had to do was unpin them and that was it, because nothing was actually installed. It was stuff like Uber and those stupid mobile games but my gaming laptop had none of that, neither have any of my pro laptops (Dell Precision M Series).

Your frustration sounds like mine when it comes to Android. I hate that I have no real choice other than to use it so I resent every little thing it seemingly forces me to do. Realistically, I know that I could probably go in and and stop all of that if I could be bothered, but I hate it so much that I can't bring myself to spend that time with it. The difference, of course, is that I don't use my phone for much beyond calls, SMS and weather so it's easy to keep putting off sorting it out. If it was my PC's operating system, I'd absolutely put the time in to get rid of all that annoying stuff because I'm in front of it 12-16 hours a day.
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | JP6K, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Knifonium, Thorn, Equator, VG Carbon, Invader, Concept | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRian
1477 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:33 pm

I use firefox with add on No Script. Not interested in edge and telling w10 that one or twice should be fine. Once again “you dont get that ie, use office 356 every few times a week”, i do. Why should i have to even set up one drive if i have no interest? I shouldn’t. I forgot to mention the occasional prompts to use the microsoft store.
Look man, i don’t mind (expect even) for people not to agree with some things i post, but i don’t expect to be called a bullshitter.
You’re quick to sing the praises of w10, i am not. They’re both opinions, i’m not calling yours’ bs. Personally i think w10 sux hence i still have two w7 machines. You like w10. I haven’t said anything much up until now because most of us on kvr are here for music related topics and OS is just tangental to making music. Whatever works for each of us
gadgets an gizmos...make noise
https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness

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GRRRRRRR!
11878 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:07 pm

It's just the way software goes. Even Photoshop these days defaults to trying to make you save everything to the cloud. You actually have to tell it you want to save things locally, which I find utterly baffling.

I was a Netscape/Firefox user for many, many years but when I got onto the beta program for Windows 8 (because I hated Windows 7 and was desperate to get off it), I decided to leave the old laptop I was testing it on absolutely stock-standard, so I could test it thoroughly, and I discovered that IE 10 out of the box was as good as FIrefox with the 4 or 5 add-ons I always installed with it to make it work the way I like. So when it came time to put Win 8 on my main machine, I kept using IE and that was that. I was still using Firefox on my Mac at work but slowly realised that IE felt faster/snappier than Firefox and sites worked at least as well. When Edge came out I switched to that pretty quickly because it worked and it saved me having to install and set up something else. The switch to Chromium was painless, although I had no problems with the old render engine.

I honestly don't see how Windows 10 can suck if you like Windows 7. Functionally there is almost no difference and where there is, Windows 10 is much improved. e.g. Start. The thing I hated most about Win7 was Start. It was completely and utterly uncustomisable, you had to use it the way it was. The carefully curated icons that my XP Start always showed me turned into an automatically generated bunch of "most used" things that may or may not have been the things I actually wanted there and it was limited to just a handful of icons. It was useless and it was only after I started on the Win8 beta that I found out they had added a search function so I hadn't actually needed to scroll and scroll and scroll to find applications. I could have used Win7 for the rest of my life and never discovered that feature, it is/was completely unintuitive UI design. It was so bad for me I spent more than 100 hours creating a Rainmeter set-up I could use instead of Start to get at my applications (I've always hated having shortcuts on my desktop because they are too hard to get at). From the day I started using Windows 8, Rainmeter became redundant.

The other thing I hated in Win7 was a carry-over from Vista - the arbitrary reorganisation of Control Panel made it impossible to find anything. In previous versions of Windows, things made sense - Add/Remove Programs, the thing you probably used most, was the first thing in the list but in Vista/Win7, it was somewhere in the middle with a different name (which I still can't remember) and I could never find it. I never got used to it because it didn't make sense. It was change for change's sake and it pissed me off no end. At least Settings makes sense and it's easy to find stuff. It was even better when I had a Windows phone because Settings was identical across both.

All I want my OS to do is let me get at my applications and facilitate my work. Windows 10 does that much better than Windows 7 (or 8) but it looks like I might have to dust off Rainmeter again for Windows 11. But once you are actually in your applications, Windows 7 and Windows 10 are pretty much the same. That said, one of the best things I've discovered since we moved to PCs at work is the Quick Access functionality in Explorer. It saves me so much time and effort every day that I really couldn't be without it at work. At home it makes less difference because everything I access tends to be in the same folder structure but at work, where things live on half-a-dozen different servers and have to be moved around for different people to access, Quick Access saves me a lot of clicking and allows me to work with just a couple of open Explorer windows, rather than the dozen or so tabs, over four different windows, I always had to have open with Finder.

I stayed on XP for a long time because Vista definitely made my life harder without offering any improvements to anything as compensation. I hated Win7 because it didn't fix any of the things I hated about Vista and added a few things to make the experience even worse. That all changed with Win8 and went to a whole new level with Win10. I honestly can't imagine how clunky WIn7 would seem now. I think the last time I had to use it would have been around 2014 or 2015 and it felt old then.
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | JP6K, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Knifonium, Thorn, Equator, VG Carbon, Invader, Concept | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRian
1290 posts since 16 Apr, 2004

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:34 pm

to answer the OP's question: they don't.

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KVRAF
1968 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:47 pm

CrystalWizard wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:33 pm
Why should i have to even set up one drive if i have no interest? I shouldn’t.
I use OneDrive, so I don't mind, but a similar thing on MacOS. To be able to set, for instance, Outlook as your default email client, you MUST configure iMail with an email address. Otherwise it's impossible to make anything else than iMail the default one.

This, and many other things is why I can't stand MacOS, but at least 8 hours every day (Mon-Fri) I have to cope 😅
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

KVRer
7 posts since 6 Jun, 2021 from Denmark

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:21 am

I run windows on my workstation and MacOS on my labtop, I use OneDrive for my music production with local download on, so I can switch between the two seamless. My only reason for using windows was because I needed to upgrade my workstation as M1 was released, and I didn’t want to be first mover (problems with VST’s etc.). Even tough I have used Microsoft since MS-DOS, I would pick an Apple workstation today and never look back.

KVRist

Topic Starter

101 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:33 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:00 am
Who f**king cares? Updates install all by themselves and your PC won't restart while you're using it so what difference does it make? Grow up, FFS!
lol @ the potty mouth kid telling me to "grow up." Being annoyed and inconvenienced by excessive (seemingly constant) updates and disliking an OS has nothing to do with maturity.
Would you prefer that your PC wasn't protected from potential threats?
No, I would prefer an OS that was written better in the first place and doesn't ram things down my throat on a regular basis. I had Win 7 for years. After an initial update after I bought it, never updated it (esp when I saw all the unnecessary crap they wanted to install that had nothing to do with security). It told me when updates were available, I ignored them, that was that. Never had an issue.
Actually, it's the opposite - Windows 8/10 use one-third fewer system resources than Windows 7, half the resources of XP.
Untrue. They all require a minimum of 2GB RAM for example (for 64-bit operations, which by now most everyone uses).
For me, Windows 10 has required by far the least amount of f**king about - it just works. It is far and away the best version of Windows ever and miles ahead of Linux or macOS.
LOL

Thank God I wasn't drinking something when I read that, it would've been coming out of my nose.

Did you or someone in your family work on Win 10 or something? You're the biggest shill for it I've yet seen.
No, what's bizarre is that anyone still uses a HDD in 2021. I don't think I've had one (internal) since 2010.
Actually your statement is what's bizarre. There isn't your way and the wrong one FYI, and SSDs have only very recently become mainstream. Further, many people who bought computers before it became common to come with SSDs are getting along just fine. It would be stupid to waste money on something they don't need.

KVRian
1290 posts since 16 Apr, 2004

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:59 am

mixyguy2 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:33 am
BONES wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:00 am
Who f**king cares? Updates install all by themselves and your PC won't restart while you're using it so what difference does it make? Grow up, FFS!
lol @ the potty mouth kid telling me to "grow up." Being annoyed and inconvenienced by excessive (seemingly constant) updates and disliking an OS has nothing to do with maturity.
Would you prefer that your PC wasn't protected from potential threats?
No, I would prefer an OS that was written better in the first place and doesn't ram things down my throat on a regular basis. I had Win 7 for years. After an initial update after I bought it, never updated it (esp when I saw all the unnecessary crap they wanted to install that had nothing to do with security). It told me when updates were available, I ignored them, that was that. Never had an issue.
Actually, it's the opposite - Windows 8/10 use one-third fewer system resources than Windows 7, half the resources of XP.
Untrue. They all require a minimum of 2GB RAM for example (for 64-bit operations, which by now most everyone uses).
For me, Windows 10 has required by far the least amount of f**king about - it just works. It is far and away the best version of Windows ever and miles ahead of Linux or macOS.
LOL

Thank God I wasn't drinking something when I read that, it would've been coming out of my nose.

Did you or someone in your family work on Win 10 or something? You're the biggest shill for it I've yet seen.
No, what's bizarre is that anyone still uses a HDD in 2021. I don't think I've had one (internal) since 2010.
Actually your statement is what's bizarre. There isn't your way and the wrong one FYI, and SSDs have only very recently become mainstream. Further, many people who bought computers before it became common to come with SSDs are getting along just fine. It would be stupid to waste money on something they don't need.
did you choose to use Windows? or are you being coerced somehow? if it is a choice, stop bitching, and start switching. it's just a tool. most craftsman pick a better tool when the one in their hand does not suit the job.

if you are puking your drinks out of your nose over statements re: windows stability, then perhaps you should consider that there are plenty of other people not suffering the same experience and realize that the problem may lie with you or your system somehow. there are over a billion people running Windows 10. if it was as bad as the experience you describe for everyone, then Microsoft could not exist. the market would not allow it. it isn't perfect, but it is pretty damn good. you are just focused on your bad experience. that sucks for you, i agree. but it doesn't make sense for you to pretend that your experience should be taken seriously, when you won't accept that others have different experiences. it's not all about you all the time.

and on a side note: SSD are fairly mainstream for quite a while now. Are you somewhere remote such that you might not realize this?
Last edited by JamminFool on Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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KVRer
17 posts since 12 Mar, 2020

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:06 am

I really don't get the issues people seem to have with the windows updates. I run my win 10 production machine online all the time as I use the internet for resources and works absolutely fine.

Occasionally I'll get windows asking for an update so when I shut it down for the day I click update and shutdown. Next day I boot the system back up and continue what I was doing the day before...
Win 10 9900k 32GB RAM | Ableton | FL Studio | S1 | RME Babyface Pro | Yamaha HS8 | MacOS Big Sur | MBP 15" 16GB RAM | Access Virus TI2 | Fabfilter | T-racks | Izotope

KVRian
1290 posts since 16 Apr, 2004

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:08 am

lb24569 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:06 am
I really don't get the issues people seem to have with the windows updates. I run my win 10 production machine online all the time as I use the internet for resources and works absolutely fine.

Occasionally I'll get windows asking for an update so when I shut it down for the day I click update and shutdown. Next day I boot the system back up and continue what I was doing the day before...
^this

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KVRian
809 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:13 am

mixyguy2 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:33 am
Did you or someone in your family work on Win 10 or something? You're the biggest shill for it I've yet seen.
fwiw, I have also had zero problems with Windows 10 as an audio PC, or for anything else. I've never needed to tune it for performance either.

Been rock solid, and I don't feel it updates all that often. When it needs to it offers an update and shut down option which I use when shutting down the PC.

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KVRAF
1673 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:49 am

jancivil wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pm
I tend to doubt you're using any apple OS, because that's pretty much :nutter:
I have specifically noticed receiving email warnings like the ones in question, on many occasions. Also from Native Instruments. (And I think mentioning facts like that don't warrant floody responses in that style, ehm. The tone/style is a good example of why I don't frequent here much.)

After a quick search in my mailbox I found the Big Sur one, "Important info about macOS Big Sur" from Native Instruments. It warns "you may have technical issues when using NI products with this new operating system." About four months later, an email stated that things are now compatible - after that, about two months more, Massive X was also compatible, and Reaktor 6 is still is marked as having issues.

This is something I've seen repeatedly through the years.

Some more from my search, clicking different years at random:

"For now, we would recommend that Heavyocity users hold off on updating to Mojave until we can ensure that our virtual instruments and effects are fully compatible."

"WAIT TO UPDATE: macOS 10.15 Catalina. To ensure your Native products work the way they should, we recommend waiting to update."

"Dear fellow composer, during October, Apple will release its new operating system, macOS 10.15 Catalina. We are currently working to ensure that our software, including our installer app, is compatible, and that your Spitfire Audio libraries will work properly. In the meantime, we recommend that you remain on current versions of macOS until further notice." (Spitfire Audio)

I know there are plenty more, I've read this stuff also on the release/info/changelog/etc. pages of the companies I'm a customer of, and based on that, I don't have a reason to doubt starflakeprj's list either.

Also, apropos, Live 9 became obsolete on macOS way back when, as it didn't work on a new version anymore and Ableton already had 10 out. Totally understandable because of that, but also not great from the side of the OS manufacturer - that a computing environment in general just routinely breaks compatibility like this, I mean. Pointing that out should be the good thing to do instead of... something to handle the way you did there.

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GRRRRRRR!
11878 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:53 pm

mixyguy2 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:33 am
Being annoyed and inconvenienced by excessive (seemingly constant) updates and disliking an OS has nothing to do with maturity.
That's right, completely ignore the point that updates are neither annoying nor an inconvenience. As I said, they happen in the background without requiring any input form the user and without causing any level of inconvenience whatsoever. And far from being constant, they happen once a fortnight, sometimes once a week. For me that's about once for every 30-60 hours I spend in front of my PC at home. If that's what constitutes an inconvenience, I can't imagine what you think when your phone rings while you're in front of your screen.
Would you prefer that your PC wasn't protected from potential threats?
No, I would prefer an OS that was written better in the first place and doesn't ram things down my throat on a regular basis.[/quote]
So use Linux and stop complaining. Personally, I appreciate that my OS comes with virus/malware protection built in and it's not something I have to bother with myself. To me it seems far less annoying and inconvenient than having to download and install 3rd party protection. It's far less intrusive, too.
I had Win 7 for years. After an initial update after I bought it, never updated it (esp when I saw all the unnecessary crap they wanted to install that had nothing to do with security). It told me when updates were available, I ignored them, that was that. Never had an issue.
Good for you. Windows 7 is the worst version of Windows I've ever used and it's update protocols were brutal.
Untrue. They all require a minimum of 2GB RAM for example (for 64-bit operations, which by now most everyone uses).
Systems requirements are not the same as system resources actually used. if you don't understand that, you should probably be on a Mac (which, to be clear, is the nastiest insult I have ever put on anyone at KVR).
Did you or someone in your family work on Win 10 or something? You're the biggest shill for it I've yet seen.
Nope. I actually didn't like it at first and stayed on Win 8.1 for a while, keeping Win 10 betas on a separate machine. But after the first major update it was at a standard where I made the switch on my work machine and by the third major update, it was so far ahead of anything else that I found I could hardly bear using W7 or even 8.1 any more. The only thing I really miss is Win8's extreme customisability but there is nothing at all that I miss about Windows 7 which, as I said, is the worst version of Windows I've ever used, for reasons I have explained elsewhere.
No, what's bizarre is that anyone still uses a HDD in 2021. I don't think I've had one (internal) since 2010.
Actually your statement is what's bizarre. There isn't your way and the wrong one FYI, and SSDs have only very recently become mainstream.[/quote]
No, SSDs have been pretty much de rigeur in laptops for a while now. My first one was in a 2008 Dell M4400. To be fair, I put it in there, it did come with a spinning HDD and Dell wanted way too much for an SSD. Since then, ever PC I've owned has had one standard.
Further, many people who bought computers before it became common to come with SSDs are getting along just fine.
I'm sue they think they are but that doesn't make it so. One day on a m.2 SSD and you'd never be able to go back.
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | JP6K, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Knifonium, Thorn, Equator, VG Carbon, Invader, Concept | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRian
560 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:52 pm

To disable Windows updates and the related crappy services/tasks it is easy.
https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-upd ... cker-v1-6/
Select "Disable Updates" with "Protect Services Settings"
click in "Apply Now" and reboot.
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