Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
7699 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:33 am

I agree, Bitwig needs a bigger user base...you have to get people stated....
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
21106 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:42 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:15 am
jens wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:31 am
but then someone - whoever is in charge of deciding how the editions differ - got a stroke or something...
They crippled those versions in most stupidest ways for underdog company that charges yearly renewals, what they are afraid, that someone would actually find those lesser versions enough for their needs...
Yes, exactly... it's just dumb, I think.

KVRist
163 posts since 8 Dec, 2014

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:50 am

Wait, they didn't add midi comping? Oh no, I was specifically looking forward to that once they announced comping. That and MP3 export are the 2 features I was missing the most. I have to take a deeper look into BitWigs recording options now because on the base setting its too many clicks for me.

edit: i also still get confused of how their monitoring settings work exactly. i only used studio one for years :D.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

9357 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:32 am

gExpectations wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:50 am
edit: i also still get confused of how their monitoring settings work exactly. i only used studio one for years :D.
In beta5 it finally makes sense! :)
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRAF
19442 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:46 am

gExpectations wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:50 am
Wait, they didn't add midi comping? Oh no, I was specifically looking forward to that once they announced comping. That and MP3 export are the 2 features I was missing the most. I have to take a deeper look into BitWigs recording options now because on the base setting its too many clicks for me.
No midi comping (yet) in V4

The audio comping is well implemented and I am finding it a creative audio editing tool outside of traditional comping. The new Operators and Expression randomizations also work with the individual audio events!

Look forward to when midi comping comes as well. The new MP3 export is welcome.

KVRAF
1676 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:01 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:33 am
I agree, Bitwig needs a bigger user base...you have to get people stated....
Really? They were on the road to that with 1.x (I was a fan), then for some reason, they headed off to touch- and modular land and forgot about mainstream users such as myself. Five years later and I have the same complaints.

The program is well-known at this point, so if the user base isn't expanding then perhaps they're not addressing the right issues or developing/improving the right features.

KVRAF
7699 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:15 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:01 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:33 am
I agree, Bitwig needs a bigger user base...you have to get people stated....
Really? They were on the road to that with 1.x (I was a fan), then for some reason, they headed off to touch- and modular land and forgot about mainstream users such as myself. Five years later and I have the same complaints.

The program is well-known at this point, so if the user base isn't expanding then perhaps they're not addressing the right issues or developing/improving the right features.
I agree, they seem to be ignoring a lot of the more obvious and 'mainstream' requests currently (although comping is pretty mainstream). Perhaps they have no interest in being mainstream and are quite happy being a niche product. Hard to say, some things they do are really cool and leftfield, sometimes they will polish an idea until it shines and deliver something amazing and fully formed, then they do some other stuff that seems a bit random and half baked/incomplete...
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRist
347 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:01 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:33 am
I agree, Bitwig needs a bigger user base...you have to get people stated....
Really? They were on the road to that with 1.x (I was a fan), then for some reason, they headed off to touch- and modular land and forgot about mainstream users such as myself. Five years later and I have the same complaints.

The program is well-known at this point, so if the user base isn't expanding then perhaps they're not addressing the right issues or developing/improving the right features.
Because they're aiming for the niche crowds and not the mainstream audience that uses Ableton and the like.
Looked like they were but lately I'm questioning it especially seeing tutorial vids on their site for $30 a vid.... Wait... Hold on... Why are they selling tutorial videos?

You know what Ableton sells on their site? Sound packs and devices to help create music

FL? Well sound packs and plugins

Reason? Looks to be the same

Studio one? Yup extension and packs

Why? Oh and to top it off the yearly update subscription

KVRAF
2544 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:38 pm

MuzikFreq wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm
Because they're aiming for the niche crowds and not the mainstream audience that uses Ableton and the like.
They are aiming for the same crowd, but Ableton established themselves already with clever marketing and actually being there all these years, being niche weird DAW for niche crowd all along, it was the time when EDM exploded in US when industry people started giving credit to those artist's and their "toy" DAW's, things evolved and changed drastically in last two decades, now Live is considered mainstream DAW.

Bitwig guys are acting like they are running Avid, in reality they should make sure everyone is using Bitwig and that it's talked about, that someone that actually matters in some relevant circle is using it and promoting, look what happened on this forum because of handful of us nobodies, it's mentioned in every thread almost, people are getting sick of hearing that name.

Deedrah was all over Bitwig and they just couldn't milk that opportunity, he was excited, posting videos of his Bitwig projects, setup and everything, asking questions on Facebook groups, probably already influenced tons of people with it, psytrance legend, but they didn't made anything about it, not single interview, share or anything, he's nowhere to be found on their site, that's the stuff Ableton does and that's why they will stay relevant and mainstream.

KVRAF
3477 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:39 pm

Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:38 pm
MuzikFreq wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm
Because they're aiming for the niche crowds and not the mainstream audience that uses Ableton and the like.
They are aiming for the same crowd, but Ableton established themselves already with clever marketing and actually being there all these years, being niche weird DAW for niche crowd all along, it was the time when EDM exploded in US when industry people started giving credit to those artist's and their "toy" DAW's, things evolved and changed drastically in last two decades, now Live is considered mainstream DAW.

Bitwig guys are acting like they are running Avid, in reality they should make sure everyone is using Bitwig and that it's talked about, that someone that actually matters in some relevant circle is using it and promoting, look what happened on this forum because of handful of us nobodies, it's mentioned in every thread almost, people are getting sick of hearing that name.

Deedrah was all over Bitwig and they just couldn't milk that opportunity, he was excited, posting videos of his Bitwig projects, setup and everything, asking questions on Facebook groups, probably already influenced tons of people with it, psytrance legend, but they didn't made anything about it, not single interview, share or anything, he's nowhere to be found on their site, that's the stuff Ableton does and that's why they will stay relevant and mainstream.
That’s the same old story between creative and business people. Getting into business it’s quite easy. Keeping it it’s another thing and expanding it it’s all another story.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRist
347 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:59 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:38 pm
MuzikFreq wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm
Because they're aiming for the niche crowds and not the mainstream audience that uses Ableton and the like.
They are aiming for the same crowd, but Ableton established themselves already with clever marketing and actually being there all these years, being niche weird DAW for niche crowd all along, it was the time when EDM exploded in US when industry people started giving credit to those artist's and their "toy" DAW's, things evolved and changed drastically in last two decades, now Live is considered mainstream DAW.

Bitwig guys are acting like they are running Avid, in reality they should make sure everyone is using Bitwig and that it's talked about, that someone that actually matters in some relevant circle is using it and promoting, look what happened on this forum because of handful of us nobodies, it's mentioned in every thread almost, people are getting sick of hearing that name.

Deedrah was all over Bitwig and they just couldn't milk that opportunity, he was excited, posting videos of his Bitwig projects, setup and everything, asking questions on Facebook groups, probably already influenced tons of people with it, psytrance legend, but they didn't made anything about it, not single interview, share or anything, he's nowhere to be found on their site, that's the stuff Ableton does and that's why they will stay relevant and mainstream.
Now looking at the site... yeah... Now you an get a trainer certification like Protools. I get ableton has this as well but not like smack dab right there. Also noticed..... They sell merch on... bandcamp and not even direct. :? I'm actually starting to wonder what they are even aiming for at this point.

KVRist
469 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:19 am

MuzikFreq wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm
Because they're aiming for the niche crowds and not the mainstream audience that uses Ableton and the like.
The problem is that every outstanding feature that makes Bitwig sitting well in it's niche has been removed from the entry level versions. Without the extensive modularity of the grid they are just bad Live copies at first sight. As much as I like Bitwig I currently don't see any reason why a beginner should choose Bitwig over Live to start his music carrer. I know that the small Bitwig versions still have a lot of routing and modulation capabilities so you still can get great results. But you have to be a very experienced sound designer to really appreciate that. Most beginners will have looked elsewhere way before digging that deep in the feature chart.

Ableton Live is everywhere so you have to be very aggressive to compete with them. All of the big guys use it and a Live Lite version comes for free with almost every new controller and sound card. Even my Presonus Atom SQ (that was designed for StudioOne) came with a free Live Lite license. So if Bitwig wants to compete in that market then they IMHO should offer a version that outperforms Live Lite and sell it for a beginner friendly price. Currently it's exactly the opposite. :shrug:

KVRAF
7699 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:40 am

It's kinda funny seeing 'Live' now described as 'mainstream', the inspired by nature' instruments in 11 are about as leftfield as it gets!

Live is however 'everywhere', comes with everything, dominates hardware controllers etc...I dont think Bitwig are competing 'against' it, they want to play with it (Link, Import) and a few will have both or even cross-over if the stuff in Live is of more interest to them. I cant see many people who don't know much about music production starting with any version of Bitwig, the unified modulation and grid will scare off as many as it attracts, Live still looks very simple and clean...and Live 11 lite is ubiquitous and comes with everything.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
2544 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:48 am

liquidsound wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:39 pm
That’s the same old story between creative and business people. Getting into business it’s quite easy. Keeping it it’s another thing and expanding it it’s all another story.
Spot on!

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KVRAF
19442 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:10 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:32 am
gExpectations wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:50 am
edit: i also still get confused of how their monitoring settings work exactly. i only used studio one for years :D.
In beta5 it finally makes sense! :)
Yup... this will result in less basic routing questions. This plus the perceptual waveform display are simple but satisfying enhancements.

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