KVR Audio

MuzikFreq · Post by **MuzikFreq** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:16 pm

Benutzername wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:19 pm
MuzikFreq wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:03 amBecause they're aiming for the niche crowds and not the mainstream audience that uses Ableton and the like.
The problem is that every outstanding feature that makes Bitwig sitting well in it's niche has been removed from the entry level versions. Without the extensive modularity of the grid they are just bad Live copies at first sight. As much as I like Bitwig I currently don't see any reason why a beginner should choose Bitwig over Live to start his music carrer. I know that the small Bitwig versions still have a lot of routing and modulation capabilities so you still can get great results. But you have to be a very experienced sound designer to really appreciate that. Most beginners will have looked elsewhere way before digging that deep in the feature chart.

Ableton Live is everywhere so you have to be very aggressive to compete with them. All of the big guys use it and a Live Lite version comes for free with almost every new controller and sound card. Even my Presonus Atom SQ (that was designed for StudioOne) came with a free Live Lite license. So if Bitwig wants to compete in that market then they IMHO should offer a version that outperforms Live Lite and sell it for a beginner friendly price. Currently it's exactly the opposite.

Yeah, if someone is starting out there is also a huge library of usable free content they can use from Live

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:34 pm

Benutzername wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:19 pmAs much as I like Bitwig I currently don't see any reason why a beginner should choose Bitwig over Live to start his music career.

I don't know much about starting a music career. Never had a thought in that direction myself. I imagine if you want to be a studio engineer, you wouldn't pick Live or Bitwig. If you want to do multi-track recording of live music, I doubt you would pick either of them as well... same for scoring for movies. On the other hand, if you are wanting to collaborate with lots of other users, then Live has many more users than Bitwig.

I imagine the majority of users are hobbyists. For those users, there are plenty of reasons one might choose Bitwig over Live

Hybrid tracks
plugin sandboxing
Bounce/Bounce in Place
audio editing is better in Bitwig
I could list a dozen other things... and if I want to use an arpeggiator to drive a synth it still takes 2 tracks in Live.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:42 pm

I doubt anyone really choses between vs. specs and features when they have no much clue about what most of those even stands for.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:30 pm

The thing with beginners is they probably need a midi keyboard or audio interface and it will probably come with a copy of Live Lite!

Bitwigs reputation is probably 'modular', 'sound design', 'creative' and 'experimental' -there are all words Bitwig use on the opening few paragraphs of their website and to me it looks geeky and technical...which attracts me, but I am not sure it would everyone!

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:39 pm

I do multi-track as and end-user, and I use Live. KISS. Results are identical.

If I were an engineer, I'd probably choose otherwise. Or be forced to at any rate. PT or Logic.

You can do mainstream stuff with any program. It's whatever makes it easiest. Bitwig has some great features and stuff I'd love to use such as hybrid tracks, sandboxing, etc. and it's fun to mess around with modulation, but for me there are a bunch of little things that Live makes far faster and easier. Time-correcting audio and simply navigating the timeline for starters.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:58 pm

jonljacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:39 pm ...but for me there are a bunch of little things that Live makes far faster and easier...

I think on paper Bitwig looks very impressive and it may make people (including the Bitwig Dev's!) wonder why many more Live users didn't just switch...the reality is no matter how much we all enjoy Bitwig, a lot of people still prefer Live for a lot of different reasons. I am sure they could also list dozens of things Live does that Bit wig doesn't do, but the reality is its often its just the look an feel of things.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:23 pm

jonljacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:39 pmbut for me there are a bunch of little things that Live makes far faster and easier.

Yeah... we are all different... for me there are lots of little things that make Bitwig far faster and easier.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:34 pm

jonljacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:39 pm I do multi-track as and end-user, and I use Live. KISS. Results are identical.

If I were an engineer, I'd probably choose otherwise. Or be forced to at any rate. PT or Logic.

You can do mainstream stuff with any program. It's whatever makes it easiest. Bitwig has some great features and stuff I'd love to use such as hybrid tracks, sandboxing, etc. and it's fun to mess around with modulation, but for me there are a bunch of little things that Live makes far faster and easier. Time-correcting audio and simply navigating the timeline for starters.

The more I’m looking at the v4 the more I think I will postpone my upgrade and wait to see if future upgrades can make a substantial difference in music production.

Those “little things” are the “big things” if you can produce and move on to the next song.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:40 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:58 pm
jonljacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:39 pm ...but for me there are a bunch of little things that Live makes far faster and easier...
I think on paper Bitwig looks very impressive and it may make people (including the Bitwig Dev's!) wonder why many more Live users didn't just switch...the reality is no matter how much we all enjoy Bitwig, a lot of people still prefer Live for a lot of different reasons. I am sure they could also list dozens of things Live does that Bit wig doesn't do, but the reality is its often its just the look an feel of things.

The Bitwig devs may be very happy with the growth of the Bitwig userbase. None of us have a clue in that regard.

As long as Bitwig stays in business, I don't care who likes it or whether Live users switch and so on. As long as it keeps being developed, I will keep using Bitwig. If for some reason I no longer could or wanted to use Bitwig as my main DAW, Logic would be my first choice as a replacement. Logic has a lot of capability that neither Live nor Bitwig has.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:15 pm

pdxindy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:40 pm If for some reason I no longer could or wanted to use Bitwig as my main DAW, Logic would be my first choice as a replacement. Logic has a lot of capability that neither Live nor Bitwig has.

Can't say I know much about Logic, but Studio One is my main bread and butter DAW for the same reason (basic capability- can be dull, but gets the job done!) Bitwig and Live are both more fun, but when I am recording a few live instruments (bands etc as I used to do before lock down) a more conventional DAW and mixer paradigm just works better (and of course Bigwig has only just got comping).

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:36 pm

Two main advantages for Bitwig. The M1 native and Linux support.
I don't have Linux installed at the moment, but I might switch to Linux from Windows as mainly I use Libre Office (Base) for work and consoles for gaming. Bitwig, Reaper and u-he synths are more than enough for music making

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:40 pm

Using only Bitwig and have no reason to switch to anything else, every DAW out there seeks some kind of workaround for some things, if I have to resort to workaround from time to time in Bitwig down the road, nothing strange or unexpected, but I'm quite satisfied so far.

What I would like is that they change their weird business decisions a little and let people appreciate the DAW without being turned off from the get go, some folks just need confirmation that Bitwig is used successfully by someone successful, that it's not some weird modular DAW for nerds from KVR or Linux enthusiasts, word of mouth is strong marketing, look at Serum. Bitwig is amazing, give people version that makes sense to be used, show them that it's viable alternative to other mainstream DAW's, actually be out there, portraying as weird and edgy secret tip DAW isn't dong it any favors, because it's awesome being normal linear DAW too.

jens · Post by **jens** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:11 pm

pdxindy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:40 pm The Bitwig devs may be very happy with the growth of the Bitwig userbase. None of us have a clue in that regard.

Well, I think chances are they're not, given the amount of ads I have seen from them here and elsewhere...

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:14 pm

Interestingly if you go to the Bitwig site the first and most prominent thing You notice is ‘the grid’ and a complicated looking patch…on the Live site Max is somewhat buried away as an option after all of the more normal stuff! Perhaps because Max is just an option…not standard.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:35 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:14 pm Interestingly if you go to the Bitwig site the first and most prominent thing You notice is ‘the grid’ and a complicated looking patch…on the Live site Max is somewhat buried away as an option after all of the more normal stuff! Perhaps because Max is just an option…not standard.

Because it only comes with the Suite version and most users are probably Lite or Standard. It keeps the new user's focus on the overal DAW experience, the workflow mainly.

Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!