Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[BasariStudios]

Modern VSTs made me rethink and recalculate the whole game and i ended
with more Hardware now including an ARP2600, Model D, Peak, Analog Keys,
Virus TI2, Quantum and over 100 Eurorack Modules.

[BONES]

Why? On the face of it your decision makes no sense. Care to give us some insight into why you went that way?

BTW, the link in your signature goes to an empty page.

[Friendly Noise]

I dare to suggest a rule: the more knobs you hardware synths have, the more fun you have using them. That’s the beauty of a modular system, even if it is made only of several modules. On the other hand, the convenience of plug-ins is not to be denied.

Take a look at the video below with two knobs/sliders-ladden synths. I had a great time making the comparison and finding out the differences. I have made similar comparisons between plugins, but even if very informative, they were never that “hands on” to me. The feeling is just too different.

Btw, I am a believer that software can sound as good as hardware.

[BONES]

So they are just toys to you? Because any enjoyment I get from a synth is in using it to make a song sound good. I get no joy whatsoever simply from moving the sliders or turning the knobs, although that used to thrill the hell out of my nephews when they were 7 or 8. They could spend all day doing it if I let them.

[jancivil]

The problem with the local cave is that there are twenty thousand other dudes also with laptops all with the same software as you all making roughly the same sound with roughly the same presets.

couldn't be further from the truth here

some people do their own synthesis and always have

[BONES]

He's not wrong, though. Whether I use presets or make my own sounds from scratch, I always end up with the same sounds. The main reason I don't use more presets is that it's more hassle to trawl though hundreds of them, looking for the good ones, than it is to just make them myself. It's laziness, not some great desire to do everything myself.

[ghettosynth]

hardware is overrated

[BONES]

Yes, it is. I came to an interesting realisation a couple of weeks ago, when I had fired up my Analog Keys for the first time in ages and was having trouble finding any good presets among the many hundreds of them it came with. I realised that when I bought the AK and was blown away by it's sounds, I was still mostly using freeware and really cheap plugins. But now I am using a lot of top-tier plugins, the same hardware I used to think sounded great - MicroMonsta, Skulpt, Craft Synth 2.0 and Analog Keys - really can't compete with those high quality VSTi. I haven't tried Ultranova against my softsynths (it's been at my bandmate's place since I got the AK) but it is definitely the case that things I used to think were good I now think sound decidedly ordinary. Even my new Uno Pro can't hold a candle to Union or JP6K. Although I still plan to use AK and Uno/Uno Pro in our live set-up, there are still some important parts that the software does so much better that AK will mostly get used as a controller.

[Ah_Dziz]

Less than modern vsts replaced my hardware. I got rid of almost all my hardware when I got my first core2duo. I keep my Nord modulars and a little pile of hardware for sound design and live stuff, but that's just extra. Other than building little one off gadgets, I don't see the point of most hardware unless you wanna go down the eurorack hole. For a hundred bucks (not counting the cost of a computer but I assume most folks have a computer from the past decade) you can have a rig that kicks the shit out of my insanely expensive all hardware rig and on top of full recall and the things everyone takes for granted these days, you can make sounds that are impossible on any hardware. I generally enjoy the sound of virtual analogs over actual analogue synths for anything but simple bass sounds. Maybe it's just me but I can do without most "analogue flavor" in a synth. Processors like distortion and eqs are much more noticeable when they are good analogue designs.

[Tj Shredder]

Why do most people think just in sound when comparing hardware vs. software? I think the simple reason why hardware is loved and used is because of the amount of inspiration it can give. And that is a matter of taste. Another aspect is other musicians who might take you more serious if you are playing something resembling closer to a physical instrument…
Personally I switched to software completely - except for controllers. The main disadvantage is that you need to set it up to play, you turn into an hybrid between instrument designer and musician. The hardware guys stay completely in the state of just being a musician. I love to tweak my instrument though… On the other hand a hardware modular system is also something in between sound engineer and musician… As I said its a matter of taste… I can feel both, but each time I reflect about getting a hardware synth, I remember my iPad, and it beats that bigger, heavier and more expensive hardware by magnitudes…

[zerocrossing]

Why do most people think just in sound when comparing hardware vs. software? I think the simple reason why hardware is loved and used is because of the amount of inspiration it can give. And that is a matter of taste. Another aspect is other musicians who might take you more serious if you are playing something resembling closer to a physical instrument…
Personally I switched to software completely - except for controllers. The main disadvantage is that you need to set it up to play, you turn into an hybrid between instrument designer and musician. The hardware guys stay completely in the state of just being a musician. I love to tweak my instrument though… On the other hand a hardware modular system is also something in between sound engineer and musician… As I said its a matter of taste… I can feel both, but each time I reflect about getting a hardware synth, I remember my iPad, and it beats that bigger, heavier and more expensive hardware by magnitudes…

I don’t personally get inspired by a physical UI vs. a software UI. As long as it’s intuitive and clear, I’m in. For instance, my knob laden Peak gets controlled by a software editor almost all the time because I don’t like the way the oscillator menu system works. Hardware is really fun for running a sequence while tweaking, but software is amazing at automation.

Basically, what I’m saying is that both are great, and arguing about them is like fighting for which is the best kitchen utensil.

[jancivil]

same here. The most hours I have in front of a synthesizer in sensu stricto (that wasn't a Minimoog or a DX7) is with Absynth. The GUI is not where the inspiration lies, believe that. Or with anything, it's better when more ergonomic vs clunky. there are some things which are too hard to look at for long. But it's kind of science more than performance here.

I have countless hours programming synths before the computer could be the synth, I don't have any sense of recollecting 'the joy of hardware' other than I like pitch bend wheels and make distinctions here, have habits and muscle memory and evvythang, but knobs turning... there's a performative aspect. I was a guitar player, a bit more tactile and real by comparison IMV. Stabbing your organ to death live, though, that's not nothing...

I find the entire hardware/software dichotomy unnecessary. I'm making music on this hardware, it's called a computer and happens to run other things too.
Hardware imparts nothing through itself to the sound, and a fair few things are essentially a computer only there's an interface with knobs and things recalling synths before there was that tech.

[jancivil]

"completely in the state of just being a musician"
good luck with that

[BONES]

Why do most people think just in sound when comparing hardware vs. software? I think the simple reason why hardware is loved and used is because of the amount of inspiration it can give.

I think that has been well covered by those to whom it applies. It does not apply to me, I find hardware infuriating. e.g. All this week I have sat in front of my Analog Keys for several hours each night and done absolutely nothing because it just pisses me off. I can't even find a way to update a f**king patch, which is just ridiculous, so I just save a new one - Save to Empty - every time I tweak something. It can handle more than 15,000 patches so I'm not likely to run out of space but it's hardly the best way to be doing things.

Another aspect is other musicians who might take you more serious if you are playing something resembling closer to a physical instrument…

If you worry about what anyone else thinks, you'll never do anything. That said, we have hardware on stage because we think it makes for a more entertaining experience for the audience but I couldn't care less what they think about me.

The main disadvantage is that you need to set it up to play, you turn into an hybrid between instrument designer and musician. The hardware guys stay completely in the state of just being a musician.

Nothing could be further from the truth. My modest hardware set-up requires 10 times the engineering effort of my software. In the last year I reckon I have probably spent $200 on cables and another $500 on other bullshit stuff, like mixers and road cases, garbage that has nothing to do with being a musician. OTOH, with my software set-up I just turn on my PC and my Seaboard and plug it into my monitors and I am off like a frog in a sock. I need precisely two $3 cables - a USB cable to the Roli and a stereo cable (mini-jack) from my Surface to the Aux In on the front of the monitors. I don't even need power. Compare that to the three hardware synths I use which, all up, require a minimum of 7 audio cables, three USB or MIDI cables and 3 power points. By the time you're ready to go, the life and creativity has been sucked right out of you.

I have countless hours programming synths before the computer could be the synth, I don't have any sense of recollecting 'the joy of hardware'

Abso-freakin'-lutely! What I do remember is finding this amazing sound on my Mono/Poly and being afraid to touch any of the knobs for about three months, in case I lost it and couldn't get it back again. I never used it for anything and even though I noted down all the settings, I never got it back again. Similar deal with my Arp Axxe - I got a bass sound I was really happy with and I was too scared to ever touch any of the controls on that synth again. That was back in the days when I was gigging every week. Having the right sounds on stage was paramount and I was totally paranoid about losing them, to the extent I seriously thought about gluing the sliders in position on the Axxe.

[ghettosynth]

I don’t personally get inspired by a physical UI vs. a software UI.

Yeah, that isn't intrinsically where it comes from. There are some things that I fundamentally prefer with hardware synths, but they include tradeoffs.

First, being able to use it live with both hands easily. The single touch nature of mouse driven software is a limitation here. That said, the advantages of the computer in so many other ways is why this is a tradeoff. The least of which includes that it's often actually faster to program a software synth just because of the reduced movement. How often do you really use two hands? Ok, live, I did, and that's where I still feel hardware has some advantage.

Related, multitouch isn't really a solution because the physical nature of knobs has some advantage in some cases. Again, I'm talking about live performance, not programming.

Finally, muscle memory can have some advantage, but again with the tradeoffs, this only works when you have fewer synths.

All in all, I'm over most live hardware. I like the maschine hardware and I combine it with a simple mixer controller that gives me level+ control over eight channels. I use that effectively for live stuff.