Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

There is no VST that can do this... the raw untamed tonality, the expressive playability.

Subjective nonsense. It sounds like sht and I would never even want to perform on such a thing. Your divine universal measures is but an example of your own bad taste in my ears. I'd prefer my Nektars and Reason any day.

[rasmusklump]

I used to have a lot of hw* over the years, but don't miss a single thing since I work completely in the box.

*I don't remember them all anymore but among them were korg 01w, alesis qsr, roland jv2080, most of the Roland rack series that included the m-bd1, virus a, kawai 5000r, novation drumstation, alesis qs88 and some more...

[BONES]

That is a very narrow and outdated perspective on what it means to play an electronic instrument live.

No, it's not. What it is is a thoroughly professional perspective that anyone who actually knows what the f**k they are doing will recognise. Why would you move a slider or a knob with your hand when you have perfectly workable and far more musical options available, from the Mod Wheel and Velocity through to full MPE implementation?

There are numerous electronic instruments that don't even have keyboards and are "played live" all the time.

That's not "playing", that's "playing with". If I wanted to watch someone stand around and twiddle knobs, I could organise a tour of a power station control room. When I go to a gig, I want to be treated to a performance. I want to see some effort.

(Valkyrie is our most hardware ridden tune for that Reason). I do not mind this division of labour at all. There is a time for hardware and one for software why the competetion between them is at minimum. All is good

Nice piece! More than a little bit like later :wumpscut: and very nicely produced. It has a bit more oomph than the others on your SC page.

I find the Rytm sequencer (yes, it is very similar to the AK) easy to use and understand. You saying you cannot use it and so it sucks is no different than you saying a guitar sucks simply cause you are unable to play it.

Which is why I made sure to mention that I'm not the only one. Not by a long way.

That is a comment on your own lack of skill and dedication to learn, not the instrument.

Not at all. It is down to a lack of need. Why would I bother just because it's there? Why would I waste my time learning something that I know I would never use, even if I mastered it completely? I watched a few videos, I played around with it for a while, at which point it became very obvious that it was never going to be a patch on Orion (or, subsequently, Bitwig, Cubase or Studio One).

And the Rytm is a freakin awesome instrument. One of the best, most expressive electronic instruments ever made.

I'd be very surprised if that were true. After all, AK was the flagship and it's mostly special because of the way it's been programmed.

Here is a spontaneous 25 minute realtime performance demonstration on the Rytm. Nothing pre planned and entirely from INIT with all sound design on the fly. Go ahead and show me a VST drum machine doing something like this from INIT.

That is absolutely woeful! It reminds me of the sortvof krap I used to go and see in the very early 80s from bands like Makers of the Dead Travel Fast or Scattered Order. The kinds of gigs where there'd be 50 people in the audience at the start of the set and 4 by the time they finished.

Not a f**king chance... doesn't matter how many times you repeat your empty talk. There is no VST that can do this... the raw untamed tonality, the expressive playability.

Battery, Groove Agent, ImpactXT, DrumRack (Orion), even the new Ujam Symphonic Drums thing would manage. I don't hear anything particularly impressive about it at all.

In the hands of a skilled artist, using an actual hardware instrument, it has an improvisational performance capability software cannot touch.

Are you insane? Just look at the absurd level of effort required to do something that is ultimately so very basic. Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to get up in front of people and do something as shit as that. It reminds me of watching Justin Bieber solve a Rubik's Cube - very impressive but ultimately worthless.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

(Valkyrie is our most hardware ridden tune for that Reason). I do not mind this division of labour at all. There is a time for hardware and one for software why the competetion between them is at minimum. All is good

Nice piece! More than a little bit like later :wumpscut: and very nicely produced. It has a bit more oomph than the others on your SC page.

Thanks, mate. I like EBM too and think you keep a good classic style with a good distance to future pop. Now if you can take care of the HW is better than SW nonsense for us, I will be even more grateful, for the fabulations evoke permanent mistrust in the concept of intelligence life in the universe, and that is depressing.

[pdxindy]

There is no VST that can do this... the raw untamed tonality, the expressive playability.

Subjective nonsense. It sounds like sht and I would never even want to perform on such a thing. Your divine universal measures is but an example of your own bad taste in my ears. I'd prefer my Nektars and Reason any day.

It is irrelevant whether you like it. The topic is whether VST's can replace hardware. Unless you can show a VST doing something similar, you got nothing but empty words. A pathetic attempt to distract from the fact that you got no answer for the example I posted. So come on... post a realtime improvisation of your Nektar's and Reason. Let's see what you got.

[pdxindy]

That is a comment on your own lack of skill and dedication to learn, not the instrument.

Not at all. It is down to a lack of need. Why would I bother just because it's there?

You buy an expensive instrument, never bother to learn to use it and then blame the instrument. Talk about pathetic.

[EnGee]

Well, I don't have many plugins in Linux (although it is increasing gradually!), so I begin to use my only hardware, the MODX 6.
I already sold some other few hardware synths. I might buy an MS-20 Mini though! So, in the end, I can't say the software has replaced completely the hardware, however, I can happily work only with software.
The hardware has some advantages like its own physical controllers and they can be turned on without the need for a middle man (the computer), but ... software is more important for me.

[pdxindy]

Battery, Groove Agent, ImpactXT, DrumRack (Orion), even the new Ujam Symphonic Drums thing would manage. I don't hear anything particularly impressive about it at all.worthless.

Go ahead and post an improvisational example then using a VST drum machine from INIT... let's hear it.

Of course you wont because you got nothing but hot air. You're a fraud, desperately trying to appear as someone who knows something when you couldn't even figure out how to use a sequencer.

Which is why I made sure to mention that I'm not the only one. Not by a long way.

Lots of people buy a guitar and never learn how to play it cause they have a fantasy but aren't prepared to put in the work. Most of them will admit it is not the fault of the guitar, but Mr. arrogance Bones is too proud to admit his own deficiency and blames the instrument. Then you make long posts, throwing insults all over the place. And you call others pathetic.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

There is no VST that can do this... the raw untamed tonality, the expressive playability.

Subjective nonsense. It sounds like sht and I would never even want to perform on such a thing. Your divine universal measures is but an example of your own bad taste in my ears. I'd prefer my Nektars and Reason any day.

It is irrelevant whether you like it. The topic is whether VST's can replace hardware. Unless you can show a VST doing something similar, you got nothing but empty words. A pathetic attempt to distract from the fact that you got no answer for the example I posted. So come on... post a realtime improvisation of your Nektar's and Reason. Let's see what you got.

No it is not irrelevant. You are basically telling us that no virtual gun can shoot your own brain out like a real one.

I might as well say that no Elektron stuff can control my Reason like my Nektars as if this would mean anything to people who do not use Reason. Your arguments are very immature, fallacious and infused with elements of magical thinking like treating your subjective preferences as anyone else’s. How utterly childish.

[dfraze]

For me is like: modern hardware might replace VST Instruments, LOL

I started with VST Instruments and then got into hardware and the real time hands on control is awesome for music making

[ghettosynth]

For me is like: modern hardware might replace VST Instruments, LOL

I started with VST Instruments and then got into hardware and the real time hands on control is awesome for music making

What many who started with plugins won't realize until it gets much deeper is all the hassles of hardware that those of us who started with hardware learned firsthand. Granted, it's better today, you don't have to do everything with hardware. However, I've seen really funny conversations about this as if people were discovering some new thing when explaining how to solve an old problem.

I have lots of old hardware and boxes of cables that I don't use much. I have some new hardware, it's better in many ways, but it still has the limitations of hardware. You always have to match the application to the cost of the hardware. What I mean by this is best exemplified by products like the Maschine+. The CPU is underpowered, it has to be, otherwise the device is overpriced. Hence, for that perception not to be viewed as a limitation, the application has to be matched properly to the underlying hardware. Sequencers are good choices, for example, because the required performance is usually quite low with respect to CPU cost.

You still have cabling issues, you really get to know this problem when your cables get old. You still have space issues, you really get to know this as you get more hardware. You still have integration issues, you really get to know this when you desire more diverse products.

It's not as simple as either/or. Both hardware and software on non-dedicated hardware have strengths and weakness, but hardware is no magic bullet. I think like many here, I've continued to use some hardware where it really makes a difference, but a lot of it is just overrated. I think that this is especially true with new VA hardware, e.g., almost anything by Roland.

YMMV and all that.

[Vortifex]

Edited

[Cheadle96]

Cant exactly replicate my Moog Sub 37. Ive tried. Its very different in many ways and the sound is more like a living entity and very open , like i can hear through all the layers of modulations. The sound just feels better. And the circuit interactions are smoother and cleaner. Its like having a guitar from a synth replicate my real guitar.

My Arturia minibrute is the same. No automating this bad boy. Fully analog, took me a little to wrap my head around how to use it but now it’s very freeing. I like figuring a performance out and recording passes of parameters changes. They are never the same and sometimes you get something very unexpected.

[BenfordLaw]

Here is a spontaneous 25 minute realtime performance demonstration on the Rytm. Nothing pre planned and entirely from INIT with all sound design on the fly. Go ahead and show me a VST drum machine doing something like this from INIT. Not a f**king chance... doesn't matter how many times you repeat your empty talk. There is no VST that can do this... the raw untamed tonality, the expressive playability.

In the hands of a skilled artist, using an actual hardware instrument, it has an improvisational performance capability software cannot touch.

I'm sorry but that sounds awful... "raw untamed tonality". Hmm...

[pdxindy]

There is no VST that can do this... the raw untamed tonality, the expressive playability.

Subjective nonsense. It sounds like sht and I would never even want to perform on such a thing. Your divine universal measures is but an example of your own bad taste in my ears. I'd prefer my Nektars and Reason any day.

It is irrelevant whether you like it. The topic is whether VST's can replace hardware. Unless you can show a VST doing something similar, you got nothing but empty words. A pathetic attempt to distract from the fact that you got no answer for the example I posted. So come on... post a realtime improvisation of your Nektar's and Reason. Let's see what you got.

No it is not irrelevant. You are basically telling us that no virtual gun can shoot your own brain out like a real one.

I might as well say that no Elektron stuff can control my Reason like my Nektars as if this would mean anything to people who do not use Reason. Your arguments are very immature, fallacious and infused with elements of magical thinking like treating your subjective preferences as anyone else’s. How utterly childish.

Just what I thought.

I posted an example of improvisational realtime performance on a hardware drum machine and made the statement that something similar cannot be done with a VST thus demonstrating that software cannot replace all aspects of hardware... the topic of the thread.

Rather than take the challenge of posting an example of someone doing the same/similar using a VST, or acknowledging that yes, in some cases hardware can do stuff that software cannot, you resort to name calling.