KVR Audio

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm

eassae wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:23 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:08 pm 8030As - Genelec? never tried 'em, what do you use now then?
The 8030As are a decent two-way starter speaker, but yeah not great for mixing low-end, especially in a bad room. Last year I bought a pair of 8351Bs, and they're fantastic. I was also thinking of going with the ATC SCM25A Pro which were recommended to me by a veteran mix master, but ultimately I thought the Genelec point source design was the winner out of the two.

Thanks for listening. The long track was kind of a weird experiment. I was doing a music residency in Sweden for a month. I figured out what the longest song I could upload to bandcamp was, and used that as a target length. I don't know how cohesive it ended up being, more like a DJ mix in a lot of ways.

Long track...I really enjoyed it...maybe a tiny bit musically fragmented in places, but that's probably 100% true of most 24 min pieces even those by some esteemed classical composers!

8351Bs - glad they sound good!

Should do at that kinda money! then again, the ATC SCM25A Pro are probably even more expensive by some way?

Alesis Monitor One M1 MK2 are mine for the last 12 years now...different price bracket, but I just love them...tight, revealing sound with first-class stereo imaging and enough bass to work with while not going so low as to stir up room problems in my home studio.

Sadly pretty old now and might need replacing in the not too distant future!

eassae · Post by **eassae** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:59 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm Should do at that kinda money!

Yeah, right!

Actually the ATC are only slightly more. I'd been coveting the 8351s for a many, many years, and I was finally able to bite the bullet. The stereo field and detail in these monitors is just amazing. I can't say enough good things about them. Also, the GLM software does a great job at mitigating the flaws in my room.

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:54 pm

eassae wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:59 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm Should do at that kinda money!
Yeah, right!

Actually the ATC are only slightly more. I'd been coveting the 8351s for a many, many years, and I was finally able to bite the bullet. The stereo field and detail in these monitors is just amazing. I can't say enough good things about them. Also, the GLM software does a great job at mitigating the flaws in my room.

Software support - of course, that's part of the package with those!

Hopefully I can keep going for a few more years without a monitor change...I have this pair pretty well 'pinned down' now in my studio room with well over a decade of reference tracks!

eassae · Post by **eassae** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:04 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:54 pm Software support - of course, that's part of the package with those!

Hopefully I can keep going for a few more years without a monitor change...I have this pair pretty well 'pinned down' now in my studio room with well over a decade of reference tracks!

To get the GLM system is a little extra actually.

If you know you monitors and the room you're in, that all you really need right? I can't pin all my past mixing mistakes on my monitors. I just sucked at mixing:)

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:11 pm

eassae wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:04 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:54 pm Software support - of course, that's part of the package with those!

Hopefully I can keep going for a few more years without a monitor change...I have this pair pretty well 'pinned down' now in my studio room with well over a decade of reference tracks!
To get the GLM system is a little extra actually.

If you know you monitors and the room you're in, that all you really need right? I can't pin all my past mixing mistakes on my monitors. I just sucked at mixing:)

A little extra on top of £3000...that might actually be a crime!

If you know you monitors and the room you're in, that all you really need right?

Pretty much, yes, but it always takes time to get to know both well...maybe 2 years or so for me if I remember...and then there's the stupid changes to the room when you forget that a piece of furniture affects the acoustics and you have to start again...did just that with a bloody futon many, many years ago in a different studio room...NEVER again!

I can't pin all my past mixing mistakes on my monitors. I just sucked at mixing:)

Your mixing is very good now...definitely improved (as you said yourself) but it's never sucked at all from what I listened to...but, if it hadn't sharpened up over the years, that would've been weird! Like playing an instrument - takes practice and experimentation and time!

And you never stop learning either...still amazes me how every mix can be so different from the last one sometimes!

Stay on KVR for a while and you'll hear a few mixes that truly suck!

eassae · Post by **eassae** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:33 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:11 pm Stay on KVR for a while and you'll hear a few mixes that truly suck!

Allomerus · Post by **Allomerus** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:30 am

Fabulous music. It's amazing what you can do now with software, some knowledge and skill!
Impressed.

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:33 am

aaron aardvark wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:07 pm ChameleonMusic,
Thank you for the review! I just remembered: some guy I met on the internet said he ran into Alice Cooper at a Southern California mall while Alice was shopping for underwear, which I find comical when picturing it. Now your song: nice intro. Nice audio quality all around. Did you do the vocals? Or software? They are quite good. Sounds like you've got some high end orchestral plugin(s) happening. Very nice song, I like it! Nice melodies too.

Thanks for having a listen Aaron!

The vocals were played live on the keyboard using a Kontakt library - they work pretty well for sustained melodic lines...but definitely have limitations beyond that!

while Alice was shopping for underwear

tomtom1 · Post by **tomtom1** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:00 am

ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm 8351Bs - glad they sound good! Should do at that kinda money!

if i saw the price right... that is more than my speakers, midi-keyboard, DAW (+plugins, okay i really use only a few), and my whole PC together...

ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm Sadly pretty old now and might need replacing in the not too distant future!

i understand that 100% - my organ shoes were totally broken (they are really really old, my 10 year old brother used them before as dancing-shoes) and i needed new ones... but it didn't work, the old ones were like "own skin". then i looked for a shoemaker and I paid him a decent sum that he would patch them up again. i hope that they "hold out" my life.

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:59 am

markkuja wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:45 am awesome music. Well done arrangement and orchestration. good mix and sounds.

Thank You!

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:15 am

tomtom1 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:00 am
ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm 8351Bs - glad they sound good! Should do at that kinda money!

if i saw the price right... that is more than my speakers, midi-keyboard, DAW (+plugins, okay i really use only a few), and my whole PC together...

ChameleonMusic wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:48 pm Sadly pretty old now and might need replacing in the not too distant future!
i understand that 100% - my organ shoes were totally broken (they are really really old, my 10 year old brother used them before as dancing-shoes) and i needed new ones... but it didn't work, the old ones were like "own skin". then i looked for a shoemaker and I paid him a decent sum that he would patch them up again. i hope that they "hold out" my life.

Yeah, they are a lot of money, but NOT at the very top end at all...you can spend £20,000 + on a pair of studio monitors. I'm more than happy with what I've got (£400s worth 15 yrs ago), as I've benchmarked / referenced them to death...but there is a difference in those top end monitors...heard it many times when I've been in big professional studios over the years.

Those Genelecs that were talked about here...I would consider them as replacements if and when I need to and if I had the money (which I don't)!

They are very good indeed because they:

#translate between nearfield and midfield settings (not many monitors do this well)
#offer a tight and neutral frequency response.
#are designed to offer a massive sweet spot (many monitors have a very small sweet spot)
#very high sound quality across the frequency range while still maintaining a small footprint.
#outstandingly accurate stereo imaging
#Linked software - optimizes the monitor regarding the quirks of your mix room

What's my own studio worth now in total...interesting question, so I tried to estimate it....

Bought my first bit of home studio equipment in 1987 and have still got bits and bobs of hardware all over the place...so taking EVERYTHING into account (including hardware / software / acoustic treatment, microphones etc etc) What's still in there - probably around £20,000 maybe)...

BUT...that's been built up over 30+ years during which time I've also been making money from it all)!

eassae · Post by **eassae** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:39 am

ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:15 am #translate between nearfield and midfield settings (not many monitors do this well)
#offer a tight and neutral frequency response.
#are designed to offer a massive sweet spot (many monitors have a very small sweet spot)
#very high sound quality across the frequency range while still maintaining a small footprint.
#outstandingly accurate stereo imaging
#Linked software - optimizes the monitor regarding the quirks of your mix room

I can definitely confirm all of this is true. I worked with the Barefoot MicroMain26 + Sub once($13,000 + Sub) and also the giant in wall 1238DFM Genelecs with a giant matching sub, and I would take my 8351Bs any day.

I have to say it was hard to press the complete purchase button on Sweetwater when I was buying them—I was like, "I can buy a really good used car for the same amount of money"—but, I haven't regretted it a single day. I imagine that I'll be buried with them

tomtom1 · Post by **tomtom1** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:59 am

ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:15 am Yeah, they are a lot of money, but NOT at the very top end at all...you can spend £20,000 + on a pair of studio monitors.

i know, i know

but i thought we are talking about "home"-studio monitors. i know that you can spend a lot of money for studio monitors. btw did you ever hear manger-audio-monitors?

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:04 pm

eassae wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:39 am
ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:15 am #translate between nearfield and midfield settings (not many monitors do this well)
#offer a tight and neutral frequency response.
#are designed to offer a massive sweet spot (many monitors have a very small sweet spot)
#very high sound quality across the frequency range while still maintaining a small footprint.
#outstandingly accurate stereo imaging
#Linked software - optimizes the monitor regarding the quirks of your mix room
I can definitely confirm all of this is true. I worked with the Barefoot MicroMain26 + Sub once($13,000 + Sub) and also the giant in wall 1238DFM Genelecs with a giant matching sub, and I would take my 8351Bs any day.

I have to say it was hard to press the complete purchase button on Sweetwater when I was buying them—I was like, "I can buy a really good used car for the same amount of money"—but, I haven't regretted it a single day. I imagine that I'll be buried with them

I would take my 8351Bs any day.

Agreed!

1238DFM Genelecs

Dude, those are beasts..mid / far field monitors...you could practically fill a small hall with the sound from those things! They're also 3 way monitors I think, so will always work best in a seriously acoustically treated room.

ChameleonMusic · Post by **ChameleonMusic** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:10 pm

tomtom1 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:59 am
ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:15 am Yeah, they are a lot of money, but NOT at the very top end at all...you can spend £20,000 + on a pair of studio monitors.
i know, i know but i thought we are talking about "home"-studio monitors. i know that you can spend a lot of money for studio monitors. btw did you ever hear manger-audio-monitors?

Yes, heard of Manger...my dad owned a pair on his ridiculously ahead of it's time Hi Fi wayback in the 1970s...didn't know they still existed...didn't know they did monitors as well as domestic hi-fi speakers.

Each Face Retains the Mask it Wore