Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[pdxindy]

"it should be easy to post a VST example."
you posted something which is abysmal, taking yourself very seriously with that.
I could post ample examples of what I do with drums using software that are so far beyond that dross it's not even the same universe, but I don't have any insecurities about this whatsoever.

I love that track I posted. I think it sounds great and I'm impressed with the skill of the fellow who made it.

If you don't like it and don't find that music interesting, fine... my experience in life is that people who don't have insecurities, don't need to be rude assholes and denigrate other peoples work.

[jancivil]

"doesn't change the fact that you still have not posted an actual example."
no serious person is going to give yours that kind of status, or are being challenged particularly. It's a weird tangent, and anyway it's somebody else's "performance". You're not showing us anything yourself at all. Kid yourself all you like but the expectation people have to respect that is unrealistic and even strange, I think.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

And I don't think there needs to be any objective measure of which sounds better or who likes it more.

So, there are no objective measures? What happende to the "untamed tonality" (whatever that is)? Well then your whole argument falls apart because then there would be no way to determine which one is the coolest, right?

Any example that shows a similar level of hands on immediacy and performance capability will suffice as a starting point. Just even get in the ballpark.

Now things get really complicated. So apart from the sound we have objective measures like the "similar level of hands on immediacy" and "performance capability"? And how are you going to measure these, then?

I would say a VST drum machine, even with something like a Nektar controller. cannot come close to the performance demonstrated in the video I posted. If you disagree, post an example.

Which now has to be determined by objective measures, which do not really exist after all, or do they? And if they do, how will you determine the universality of your claim? Ask 7 billion if the agree about your verdict?

Have you wondered whether all these features of the vid you value are due to training with the box and have little to do what the box itself is? If you hear a man play guitar well, is your first thought that it is due to the guitar?

posted an actual example.

Your example says nothing but reveals a very fallacious thinking not unlike above and need no counter example to be proven worthless. You have done a great job in this regard.

I rest my case.

[jancivil]

"it should be easy to post a VST example."
you posted something which is abysmal, taking yourself very seriously with that.
I could post ample examples of what I do with drums using software that are so far beyond that dross it's not even the same universe, but I don't have any insecurities about this whatsoever.

I love that track I posted. I think it sounds great and I'm impressed with the skill of the fellow who made it.

If you don't like it and don't find that music interesting, fine... my experience in life is that people who don't have insecurities, don't need to be rude assholes and denigrate other peoples work.

Well, if you're going on about being insulting, you maybe could check yourself.

You insinuated insecurity on me - and *a need* to be a rude asshole and to denigrate - rather glibly because I finally gave my genuine assessment of it. That's just a desperately losing argument revealed in myriad ways.

I don't have to respect that 'work'. I can be genuine about that. It isn't a need in me, I don't go around looking for trouble, I don't go downvote things, at all. You put a pot on to boil and now the kitchen is too hot for you.

[jancivil]

And I don't think there needs to be any objective measure of which sounds better or who likes it more.

So, there are no objective measures? Well then your whole argument falls apart because then there would be no way to determine which one is the coolest, right?

Yep, the goalpost is <this is superior to whatever else could ever be if it's software>, but in the end it's just a guy who like this more; now thinking 'you don't have a demonstration of anything better' is to overwhelm the discourse (PDX Dude: I absolutely do, and I will have thought that was beyond lame in 1985. So, were I less secure in the evidence of that, or impressed at all at this as a metric for a shoot-out I might feel impelled to post. Not even hardly.).

It's a ludicrous situation.

[pdxindy]

"doesn't change the fact that you still have not posted an actual example."
no serious person is going to give yours that kind of status, or are being challenged particularly. It's a weird tangent, and anyway it's somebody else's "performance". You're not showing us anything yourself at all. Kid yourself all you like but the expectation people have to respect that is unrealistic and even strange, I think.

Seems to me a serious person is someone who would be interested to discuss the actual tools and would be happy to post videos showing those tools being used in different use cases.

I guess we disagree on what a serious person is cause to you it is someone who spends their posts on name calling, one-upmanship and dick wagging.

Anyway, I'm putting you on ignore now cause you have not contributed a single on topic post and have been nothing but a mean spirited asshole.

[jancivil]

"a similar level of hands on immediacy and performance capability"
This is not immediacy or an especial capability for performance, it's a guy pushing buttons running portions of prefabricated totally quantized sub-rudimentary rhythm in a machine. This is tantamount to delusional. People who have endeavored to master an instrument are not falling for this as any of those things.

[billcarroll]

"doesn't change the fact that you still have not posted an actual example."
no serious person is going to give yours that kind of status, or are being challenged particularly. It's a weird tangent, and anyway it's somebody else's "performance". You're not showing us anything yourself at all. Kid yourself all you like but the expectation people have to respect that is unrealistic and even strange, I think.

Seems to me a serious person is someone who would be interested to discuss the actual tools and would be happy to post videos showing those tools being used in different use cases.

I guess we disagree on what a serious person is cause to you it is someone who spends their posts on name calling, one-upmanship and dick wagging.

Anyway, I'm putting you on ignore now cause you have not contributed a single on topic post and have been nothing but a mean spirited asshole.

and KVR suffers for it

[jancivil]

"doesn't change the fact that you still have not posted an actual example."
no serious person is going to give yours that kind of status, or are being challenged particularly. It's a weird tangent, and anyway it's somebody else's "performance". You're not showing us anything yourself at all. Kid yourself all you like but the expectation people have to respect that is unrealistic and even strange, I think.

Seems to me a serious person is someone who would be interested to discuss the actual tools and would be happy to post videos showing those tools being used in different use cases.

I guess we disagree on what a serious person is cause to you it is someone who spends their posts on name calling, one-upmanship and dick wagging.

Anyway, I'm putting you on ignore now cause you have not contributed a single on topic post and have been nothing but a mean spirited asshole.

Keep lying to yourself about what this is. In reality I made several points which you can't do anything with and this is finally a cop-out, a very hypocritical cop-out in that it's you're the one shit-talking about a person. I went for what you said, it's seriously wanting as an argument from the very core of it.

I'm definitely more than one up on this video, these remarks/gestures, your understanding. My problem is pretty basic, I think one - doesn't have to be you, you are of no interest to the discussion, personally - who takes this as improvisational acumen, or expressive or all of this ludicrous hyperbole evidences a profound disconnection with the act of making music for real, combined by an overconfidence I find obnoxious. You haven't the least understanding what an improvising musician even does apparently. You be you, I'm certainly never going to miss anything by you muting me.

"I guess we disagree on what a serious person is cause to you it is someone who spends their posts on name calling,"
that's just entirely childish. for several iterations now your only argument is attack the person.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

You cannot penetrate a statement where someone thinks a vid demonstrates his point so evidently that he does not even have to explain how, but just ask for a vid that disproves it. Yeah, old story of burden of evidence: God exists, prove me wrong

[AnX]

You cannot penetrate a statement where someone thinks a vid demonsrates his point so evidently that he does not even have to explain how, but just ask for a vid that disproves it. Yeah, old story of burden of evidence: God exists, prove me wrong

the burden of evidence lies on the person making the claim

in your last example, neither party can prove anything.....

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

the burden of evidence lies on the person making the claim

in your last example, neither party can prove anything.....

In my example, only one part made a claim and thus has to prove something. It is not the other part's job to provide counter-proof, so I am not sure where you want to go with this.

[chk071]

Meanwhile, in the OP's basement...

[AnX]

the burden of evidence lies on the person making the claim

in your last example, neither party can prove anything.....

In my example, only one part made a claim and thus have to prove something. It is not the other part's job to provide counter-proof, so I am not sure where you want to go with this.

you said "god exists, prove me wrong"

it's up to you to prove god exists, you made the claim....

But existence cannot be proven, nor can non existence..... its all belief

anyway, my point is, if you make a claim, you have to back it up, you cant just say "prove me wrong" (Well, you can, but that's not really how it works)

[jancivil]

FTR, I expected that video *might* show some cleverness or something different, it exceeded my worst expectation by a ways.

"in your last example, neither party can prove anything.....:
burden of proof is on the person initially making the assertion, and it's kind of an extraordinary one, this video shows the overwhelming superiority of a hardware orientation. It showed me jackassery and wild overconfidence and an entirely mistaken grasp of musical terms.

I have nothing to prove at all, I didn't make any extraordinary assertions in my reality-centric arguments.