Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[dellboy]

In reply to the OPs original question the answer for me is no, VSTs do not replace hardware.

The cost of real analogue hardware, especially at second hand values, is now comparable in price with "virtual analogue" VSTs. Why would i want a software copy if I can have the real thing for a similar price ?

The only reason I can think of is to save space and reduce clutter. If I lived in a caravan or studio flat or something similar then, yes, I need the space, so a laptop loaded with VSTs and a small midi controller would suffice. Common sense really.

[StefVR]

How do you think the cost is similar. Its not even close. You can just be lucky and value rises but even if you can sell your hardware with low loss you still have the working capital effect where your funds are bound and you could have investet into somethin profitable meanwhile.

[vurt]

How do you think the cost is similar. Its not even close. You can just be lucky and value rises but even if you can sell your hardware with low loss you still have the working capital effect where your funds are bound and you could have investet into somethin profitable meanwhile.

more profitable than my happiness?
oh you mean finances n shit
im a musician, i have people for that

[Vortifex]

Edited

[AnX]

In reply to the OPs original question the answer for me is no, VSTs do not replace hardware.

The cost of real analogue hardware, especially at second hand values, is now comparable in price with "virtual analogue" VSTs. Why would i want a software copy if I can have the real thing for a similar price ?

The only reason I can think of is to save space and reduce clutter. If I lived in a caravan or studio flat or something similar then, yes, I need the space, so a laptop loaded with VSTs and a small midi controller would suffice. Common sense really.

Legend under 100

used Minimoog...... phew


simultaneous multiple instances of Legend, still under 100


see where I'm going.....?

[jancivil]

a Minimoog costs more than what my entire setup cost. I think I paid 50 bucks for Monark second hand. I'm looking at 7K for used minimoogs at google shopping. the iOS version is $14.99.

how many of us remember having to xerox the patch sheets and write everything in a patch down (and keep stacks of paper about) or the patch may be lost forever?

[dellboy]

Legend under 100

used Minimoog...... phew


simultaneous multiple instances of Legend, still under 100


see where I'm going.....?

I'm sorry, I do not have a clue where you are going. Who needs a real Minimoog when a used Behringer Model D can be purchased on ebay for less than $200. It has the same sound as a Minimoog with USB, and midi, and it has a resale value.

Prior to the advent of Behringers assault on the vintage analogue market I could indeed understand your reasoning, but now all manner of hardware synths can be bought for very little money.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

One thing I think gets overlooked in these discussions is that some people have horrible taste. I mean, look at the world full of crap that people listen to. If you don’t see it, it’s because you’re who I’m talking about. So, when someone says, “this sounds as good as that,” there’s a good chance that they don’t have any idea of what good is and never will.

What is good taste in music?

Ah, man. You stepped right into his trap.

[Vortifex]

Edited

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Not if you challenge his premíse and fight like a man!
(running to kitchen to grap popcorn and cola)

[pekbro]

The funny thing is, I know quite a few professional musicians and a couple sound guys, all of them support themselves by music alone. They gig and tour, they play small venues and large ones, some of them venues of half a million people. Not a single one of them has ever even mentioned software. Granted they are not electronic musicians, but they simply don't use it or even know anything about it quite often. Even after performing for 40 years or more, and believe me, I have asked them, a lot.

[pdxindy]

In the hands of a skilled artist, using an actual hardware instrument, it has an improvisational performance capability software cannot touch.

Wow a single video created 6 pages of discussion…
But there is a wrong assumption on the above quote. Especially in this box all is about controllers and workflow which is given in that box. But behind the scenes there is pure software in a comparatively weak computer, its just covered in the box and has a really tiny screen which would make it for visually impaired unusable. The video BONES posted later with the Bitwig setup and a touchscreen as controller shows that that sort of workflow of course is possible in the box.

There is not a wrong assumption. Regardless of what may happen tomorrow, as it currently stands today I have not come across a midi controller interface that comes close to the realtime usability of dedicated interfaces. Hopefully someday, but not today.

The Bitwig video Bones posted is very different from the one I posted. It is a simple repeating pattern that once recorded has almost no performative aspect at all. It is pre-planned, quantized and has no improvisational/interactive aspect other than the initial recording of the parts.

On the other hand, the video I posted, he is constantly changing and editing things. Adding notes, moving notes in time, deleting notes, muting and unmuting tracks, using the interplay of all those things, doing sound design, editing the core sounds being used, adding/editing p-locks, setting up modulations, switching between patterns, etc. etc.

The Bitwig video has none of that... for example, once the drum track was played, it was never touched afterwards and it just repeats without change until the end. It is simple pre-planned recording, not hands or improvisational in the manner I am talking about. From my perspective the two examples are entirely different.

I'm not saying that one way of doing things is 'better' than the other (though I personally find one more interesting than the other but that is simply my subjective interest). I am saying IF you want/are interested in that sort of hands on improvisational flexibility with the performance as demonstrated by the Rytm video, software with a midi controller doesn't get you there and not even close. There was none of that in the Bitwig video so I think it is also a good demonstration of the difference. That difference may not matter to someone and that is fine.

Actually insisting to “from INIT” is pointless. A real from init is designing the hardware as well, like in the Toaster project…

It may be pointless to you. Doesn't make it pointless for someone else. That all the sounds were created from INIT is indicative of how readily they can be edited on the fly with the editing itself as part of the performance. And with the Rytm, one can easily make a couple notes of a pattern play an entirely different sound, or spontaneously edit a sound to bridge to the next pattern. Sound design is part of the improvisational process. Very different from the pre-organized, pre-planned Bitwig video.

I used to be part of an improv theatre group. We did live performances in front of audiences and did so with no pre-planning. We would ask someone in the audience to give us a word or short phrase to use as a basis and go from there. Whatever characters and dialog ensued was 100% spontaneous improvisation. We had no rehearsed structure to fall back on. I loved doing it. It was freaking awesome!

And no, we didn't need to build the stage and lights for it to be improv... to be from INIT.

[zerocrossing]

Lots of people buy a guitar and never learn how to play it cause they have a fantasy but aren't prepared to put in the work.

We're not talking about random people on the street, we're talking about respected, highly experienced people like Nick Batt (in his AK review, if you want to look it up).

Within an hour of first using the Elektron sequencer on the AK I was making sequences. Yes it takes some work to learn all the deeper intricacies of it, but it isn't hard. 1 week of focused effort and anyone could do it.

I found some things about the Analog RYTM to be not very intuitive, but a small investment in an iOS video series by MacProVideo got me up to speed in a few hours. If you can’t learn an Elektron instrument, you probably should find a different hobby. That said, I can see why people don’t prefer to use their gear. I still do all the sound design in their software editor (Overbridge 2).

So why have one? Actually, I have an Analog Four as well. Why? They have a sound that is plain and simply not approximated in software. The cost is irrelevant. Some people spend their cash on cars, drugs, drinking in clubs, etc. I like synthesizers. Hardware, software… makes zero difference to me. If I love the way a synth sounds, the feature set is right and the price is reasonable, I buy it. Could I do everything in software? Of course. Would it sound just as good? Yes, I believe it could, but it wouldn’t sound the same. The price for that is fairly high, but not ridiculously so. It requires at room that’s at least 9x12 ft. (3x4 m for the rest of the world.) I find the monetary and spacial investment to be worth what I get out of it, so that’s that.

I also think there’s a type of character that is done better in hardware. Software tends to sound tight and focused, while hardware can be wonderfully loose and smudgy. I’ll use RePro, as synth that I love, as an example of why I still have a Prophet 6. RePro just can’t get there. It’s like an LED bulb in comparison to an old incandescent Edison bulb. Both light the room, and can maybe put out light of the same temperature, but the software can’t replicate something about how that bulb looks. It’s not always true that a hardware synth has this character. My Peak is definitely in the LED bulb category, but I dig in anyway.

[zerocrossing]

In reply to the OPs original question the answer for me is no, VSTs do not replace hardware.

The cost of real analogue hardware, especially at second hand values, is now comparable in price with "virtual analogue" VSTs. Why would i want a software copy if I can have the real thing for a similar price ?

The only reason I can think of is to save space and reduce clutter. If I lived in a caravan or studio flat or something similar then, yes, I need the space, so a laptop loaded with VSTs and a small midi controller would suffice. Common sense really.

I’m not sure how you came up with that. Even a good used price on a Behringer Model D is going to cost double what something like Legend will run you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Behringer-Mode ... 632-2357-0

[pdxindy]

The funny thing is, I know quite a few professional musicians and a couple sound guys, all of them support themselves by music alone. They gig and tour, they play small venues and large ones, some of them venues of half a million people. Not a single one of them has ever even mentioned software. Granted they are not electronic musicians, but they simply don't use it or even know anything about it quite often. Even after performing for 40 years or more, and believe me, I have asked them, a lot.

hehehe... That is a good reminder.

The world is a big place and there is lots of room for all sorts of interests and different musical expressions.