DP 11 is out

[pdxindy]

i hate saying this but Bitwig and Logics ways don’t help you any here. They both have uniquely closed off routing compared to Live and DP.

Saying that Bitwig's routing is closed off is kinda like saying the 3rd fastest sprinter in the world is slow cause there are 2 people slightly faster

[machinesworking]

i hate saying this but Bitwig and Logics ways don’t help you any here. They both have uniquely closed off routing compared to Live and DP...

That's a pretty ridiculous statement.

Try this in Live:
- a MIDI clip with 4 consecutive quarter notes
- going through Cthulhu, to change it into chords
- going to Sylenth, to play the chords
- MIDI from Cthulhu transposed is 2 octaves, with added velocity randomisation
- sent to StutterEdit that'd process audio from Sylenth

Those are at least 4 tracks in Live. Probably more in DP.

That's also 1 track in Bitwig.

You don't have to have complex routing features, if you don't need it in practice.

simple =/= better in every case. You’re pointing out an area where Bitwig is easier by virtue of its more closed off routing, which is true, but using the same method look at your basic Kontakt multi instrument in Bitwig compared to Live or DP. It took me forever to figure out how to do that in Bitwig and it’s by no means intuitive or even good UX, it’s more or less a hidden feature that I had to find a youtube video to figure out. Compare that to Live or DP where you select a MIDI track and assign the output to Kontakts respective MIDI channel where the instrument exists. This is what i was talking about, Bitwig and Logic have similar non linear non recording studio based approaches to routing that would make DP, Live etc. seem weird in comparison.

[pdxindy]

It took me forever to figure out how to do that in Bitwig and it’s by no means intuitive or even good UX, it’s more or less a hidden feature that I had to find a youtube video to figure out. Compare that to Live or DP where you select a MIDI track and assign the output to Kontakts respective MIDI channel where the instrument exists.

2 things...

1 - if you can do it, even though it might not be intuitive, that means it is not closed off.

2 - In Bitwig, If I have a midi track in Bitwig and I want to send it to Kontakt on midi channel 4, On the midi track I/O, set the Output to Kontakt and channel 4. Sounds exactly the same as what you describe for Live and DP. I think your Bitwig info is out of date.

[machinesworking]

It took me forever to figure out how to do that in Bitwig and it’s by no means intuitive or even good UX, it’s more or less a hidden feature that I had to find a youtube video to figure out. Compare that to Live or DP where you select a MIDI track and assign the output to Kontakts respective MIDI channel where the instrument exists.

2 things...

1 - if you can do it, even though it might not be intuitive, that means it is not closed off.

2 - In Bitwig, If I have a midi track in Bitwig and I want to send it to Kontakt on midi channel 4, On the midi track I/O, set the Output to Kontakt and channel 4. Sounds exactly the same as what you describe for Live and DP. I think your Bitwig info is out of date.

1. where’s the matrix? in Reaper and DP there’s an overview of your routing in dp it’s the Bundles window. This is similar to how logic handles it, the overview isn’t there. It’s not worse in the bigger picture, it just doesn’t follow any typical routing conventions. Reaper also has universal tracks so that’s not the issue. That’s what I meant by closed off, it’s not that the feature isn’t there or isn’t powerful, it’s that access to it is through menus, not any window showering you the layout etc. Same with Bussing, i’m DP a MIDI track addresses any MIDI capable VST or VSTi as well as hardware in Audio MIDI Set Up directly. This isn’t the case in Bitwig, it’s through an external instrument plug in.

2. to route an instrument track (since bitwig doesn’t have dedicated MIDI tracks), you have to select the output from the information window, and it’s a specific type of selection, if you point your track with the channel 13 say, at the track itself it does nothing, I’m not in front of a computer but it’s not intuitive at all, there’s no denying this and it’s not as straightforward as you’re suggesting.


Pretty much I’m of the opinion that people get stuck thinking of things in the way that the DAWs they use wires them to think about it. I’ve got 6 DAWs on the computer and IMO DP isn’t the most confusing one, but i admit it’s near Reaper IMO it goes from hardest to easiest Reaper, DP, Logic, Bitwig, Reason, Live. But by no means does that mean everything about live is easy to learn or that everything about Reaper is complex.

[Serhii Kot]

Pretty much I’m of the opinion that people get stuck thinking of things in the way that the DAWs they use wires them to think about it. I’ve got 6 DAWs on the computer and IMO DP isn’t the most confusing one, but i admit it’s near Reaper IMO it goes from hardest to easiest Reaper, DP, Logic, Bitwig, Reason, Live. But by no means does that mean everything about live is easy to learn or that everything about Reaper is complex.

I have demoed DP the whole day today. For me, it is the most unintuitive DAW, coming from Reaper, Logic, Studio One, Bitwig, Live, or even FL Studio.

I had a feeling that it feels like FL sometimes, with all this unnecessary extrawork with routing.

And 2 tracks to handle 1 instrument, I don't get it.

Chunks, I thought it would work like a subproject like in Reaper, so I could insert chanks in tracks, but they are just like Alternative versions in Logic, but more advanced. Not very useful for music production workflow itself (creating music).

I didn't find any decent tutorial whatsoever for DP10. Even paid one. Stock plugins GUI outdated also.

I will give it a try tomorrow, I want to create at least 1 commercial track there. Just to be sure of my overall feelings about it.

[xbitz]

^^^ I can see some courses https://www.groove3.com/browse/by-categ ... -performer , and there was an article series on https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... art-1.html too, btw. is there any trial/demo version?

[pdxindy]

2. to route an instrument track (since bitwig doesn’t have dedicated MIDI tracks), you have to select the output from the information window, and it’s a specific type of selection, if you point your track with the channel 13 say, at the track itself it does nothing, I’m not in front of a computer but it’s not intuitive at all, there’s no denying this and it’s not as straightforward as you’re suggesting.

Okay, for example I set up Kontakt with 3 instruments...

If you enable I/O in the track view, you can select output to Kontakt and midi channel right on the track. So if I have 3 tracks with midi clips and one track with Kontakt. I set each of the 3 midi tracks to Kontakt and midi channels 1,2 and 3 and each of the midi tracks will play one of the 3 instruments in Kontakt.

It's exactly as straightforward as I'm saying. You're out of date with Bitwig as it is no longer as you remember it and hasn't been for a while. Understandable since you have 6 DAW's.

[antic604]

2. to route an instrument track (since bitwig doesn’t have dedicated MIDI tracks), you have to select the output from the information window, and it’s a specific type of selection, if you point your track with the channel 13 say, at the track itself it does nothing, I’m not in front of a computer but it’s not intuitive at all, there’s no denying this and it’s not as straightforward as you’re suggesting.

Okay, for example I set up Kontakt with 3 instruments...

If you enable I/O in the track view, you can select output to Kontakt and midi channel right on the track. So if I have 3 tracks with midi clips and one track with Kontakt. I set each of the 3 midi tracks to Kontakt and midi channels 1,2 and 3 and each of the midi tracks will play one of the 3 instruments in Kontakt.

It's exactly as straightforward as I'm saying. You're out of date with Bitwig as it is no longer as you remember it and hasn't been for a while. Understandable since you have 6 DAW's.

As I don't have Kontakt, are you able to route audio from Kontakt's "chains" back into those 3 MIDI tracks?

[Serhii Kot]

As I don't have Kontakt, are you able to route audio from Kontakt's "chains" back into those 3 MIDI tracks?

No, as far as I can tell. The way you can do it is to create a separate audio channel and add an Audio Receiver and select the needed audio source.

[antic604]

No, as far as I can tell. The way you can do it is to create a separate audio channel and add an Audio Receiver and select the needed audio source.

You don't have to do it anymore in v4 - you can now use track's input and enable constant monitoring. Like in "normal" DAW

[Serhii Kot]

No, as far as I can tell. The way you can do it is to create a separate audio channel and add an Audio Receiver and select the needed audio source.

You don't have to do it anymore in v4 - you can now use track's input and enable constant monitoring. Like in "normal" DAW

Indeed, thanks. But still, you have to create unnecessary tracks, just like in DP.

[antic604]

No, as far as I can tell. The way you can do it is to create a separate audio channel and add an Audio Receiver and select the needed audio source.

You don't have to do it anymore in v4 - you can now use track's input and enable constant monitoring. Like in "normal" DAW

Indeed, thanks. But still, you have to create unnecessary tracks, just like in DP.

Yeah indeed. Bitwig tries to avoid feedback routing apparently.

But in reality you can just use the chains available in the VST wrapper itself - you can add FX chains per instrument, send them separately to FX tracks, control from the mixer, etc. Like normal tracks:

Zrzut ekranu (187).png

[machinesworking]

Pretty much I’m of the opinion that people get stuck thinking of things in the way that the DAWs they use wires them to think about it. I’ve got 6 DAWs on the computer and IMO DP isn’t the most confusing one, but i admit it’s near Reaper IMO it goes from hardest to easiest Reaper, DP, Logic, Bitwig, Reason, Live. But by no means does that mean everything about live is easy to learn or that everything about Reaper is complex.

I have demoed DP the whole day today. For me, it is the most unintuitive DAW, coming from Reaper, Logic, Studio One, Bitwig, Live, or even FL Studio.

I had a feeling that it feels like FL sometimes, with all this unnecessary extrawork with routing.

And 2 tracks to handle 1 instrument, I don't get it.

Chunks, I thought it would work like a subproject like in Reaper, so I could insert chanks in tracks, but they are just like Alternative versions in Logic, but more advanced. Not very useful for music production workflow itself (creating music).

I didn't find any decent tutorial whatsoever for DP10. Even paid one. Stock plugins GUI outdated also.

I will give it a try tomorrow, I want to create at least 1 commercial track there. Just to be sure of my overall feelings about it.

read my previous posts for tips on how to get around in DP if you’re confused. On the subject of Chunks, 100% they’re a composing tool as well as whole projects etc. I often use them for parts of a song to quickly build it up etc. The key is to keep the same order of tracks, then you can drag Chunks into the timeline a drop them where you want them to be.

In terms of separate MIDI tracks even on a single instrument, this is a convention based on V-Racks which exist outside of the Sequence Chunk. V-Racks don’t address the timeline, so an instrument also being a MIDI track could cause problems etc. All of this makes much more sense if you’re using dozens of Kontakt, Play, UVI, VEP plug ins etc. in a V-rack or in a slave computer. In that case all of a sudden it’s the opposite, DPs Tracks window looks far far less cluttered, uses far less CPU etc.

[machinesworking]

For everyone’s information, though Chunks are absolutely fantastic, it’s best to learn how to use the basic Tracks Window in a single Sequence before jumping into Chunks. You definitely will get lost in the weeds if you start off trying to incorporate them before knowing how to comprise a song in a single Sequence.

[pdxindy]

Okay, for example I set up Kontakt with 3 instruments...

If you enable I/O in the track view, you can select output to Kontakt and midi channel right on the track. So if I have 3 tracks with midi clips and one track with Kontakt. I set each of the 3 midi tracks to Kontakt and midi channels 1,2 and 3 and each of the midi tracks will play one of the 3 instruments in Kontakt.

It's exactly as straightforward as I'm saying. You're out of date with Bitwig as it is no longer as you remember it and hasn't been for a while. Understandable since you have 6 DAW's.

As I don't have Kontakt, are you able to route audio from Kontakt's "chains" back into those 3 MIDI tracks?

No, that would be a feedback path... I also wouldn't want to. Just unfold Kontakt in the mixer to see individual chains...