Motorola DSP563xx Emulator (BETA) (Access Virus, Nord Lead, Waldorf MW...)
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
What are the controls of the Virus emulator plugin actually doing? I was wondering about that. A lot of those had names like "Control 69", and, whenever they had actual parameter names, the parameter names didn't seem to match the controls of the ROM.
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 2 Jul, 2005
I had a NM1 and a micro for ages. I bought a G2 layer on because I missed having these sorts of things. Do they support processing audio through the emulation?gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:51 pmYes they did .
I think the hardest part for the nord modular will be the editor ( if when they will ever do one )
It requires a separate midi bus for handling sysex data .
Happy G1 rack owner since 2003
I'd imagine that running a giant array of modulars on my cpu would be a beautiful thing. Hell I'd buy another one to use to control the software.
This is a neat project. I'm amazed it took a group of random people on the internet to get this going. I would have figured that at least one or two of these companies would have taken this approach to port their own stuff to the computer world.
JJ
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
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- KVRian
- 821 posts since 14 May, 2014
They're all too busy making another Roland Juno emulation or NI Massive-killerI would have figured that at least one or two of these companies would have taken this approach to port their own stuff to the computer world.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
Look here for the Virus CC list https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php? ... ters-list/chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm What are the controls of the Virus emulator plugin actually doing? I was wondering about that. A lot of those had names like "Control 69", and, whenever they had actual parameter names, the parameter names didn't seem to match the controls of the ROM.
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
I couldn't get the Virus HC to work for whatever reason (must have messed up with the midi inputs/ outputs somewhere I guess, despite I followed their guide carefully) but the emu works fine with the Studio One generic control surface. I kinda makes a sound, I can select presets (without seeing their names though) and tweak things, program some midis and bounce it, but I'm getting a lot of CPU spikes and audio dropouts in a random manner (Virus B ROM, new i5). Loading a second instance may crash Studio One, though not always (good to know it may be used as multi-instance in principle).
Hope they improve the perfomance and make a GUI soon. Hearing that Virus sound in my DAW without my Virus being connected made my heart beat faster
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
That's how I did it: Mapped some of those CC's to my controller's controls, and played a bit with the init patch, using the program change on the Virus emu's interface.recursive one wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:28 pmLook here for the Virus CC list https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php? ... ters-list/chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm What are the controls of the Virus emulator plugin actually doing? I was wondering about that. A lot of those had names like "Control 69", and, whenever they had actual parameter names, the parameter names didn't seem to match the controls of the ROM.
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
What I wonder though is what are these controls on the Virus emu's interface? I can't make sense of it, especially as they don't seem to always do what the knob's names suggest (e.g., the filter cutoff doesn't do anything with the Virus' filter cutoff. Only the program change, and some general things work as they should).
Same.recursive one wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:28 pm Hope they improve the perfomance and make a GUI soon. Hearing that Virus sound in my DAW without my Virus being connected made my heart beat faster
And, as I mentioned above, I had some serious droput issues as well. My CPU just can't handle this. I don't think it's very accurate to say that CPU's which can handle above 136 or 108 MIPs in the test tool really does reality justice. I guess CPU's should be able to handle 200 or more MIPs, and don't drop below that. E.g., in the test, I had about 150 MIPs with my CPU in average, but, sometimes dropped to 103. Looks like that's not at all feasible to run this. I can play very simple 1 or 2 oscillator sounds, without long release, but, when I activate unison, or play some sounds with long release, it's absolutely unusable.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
What DAW are you using? I think these knob names are assigned by your host and aren't specific to the emu itself. The cutoffs are CC40 (filter 1) and CC41 (filter 2), they are called just "control 40" and "contorol 41" here. Tweaking these knobs does change the cutoff, as I hear.chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:38 pmThat's how I did it: Mapped some of those CC's to my controller's controls, and played a bit with the init patch, using the program change on the Virus emu's interface.recursive one wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:28 pmLook here for the Virus CC list https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php? ... ters-list/chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm What are the controls of the Virus emulator plugin actually doing? I was wondering about that. A lot of those had names like "Control 69", and, whenever they had actual parameter names, the parameter names didn't seem to match the controls of the ROM.
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
What I wonder though is what are these controls on the Virus emu's interface? I can't make sense of it, especially as they don't seem to always do what the knob's names suggest (e.g., the filter cutoff doesn't do anything with the Virus' filter cutoff. Only the program change, and some general things work as they should).
I've got a pretty fast CPU, not the fastest in the world but I can play 6 note chords in Repro 5 HQ/multicore just fine. It's not constant overload, I can play notes and chords in the emu with about 7-8% CPU load (5 note chord with the default patch may play fine), but the next moment it will radnomly go through the roof for no apparent reason.chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:38 pm And, as I mentioned above, I had some serious droput issues as well. My CPU just can't handle this. I don't think it's very accurate to say that CPU's which can handle above 136 or 108 MIPs in the test tool really does reality justice. I guess CPU's should be able to handle 200 or more MIPs, and don't drop below that. E.g., in the test, I had about 150 MIPs with my CPU in average, but, sometimes dropped to 103. Looks like that's not at all feasible to run this. I can play very simple 1 or 2 oscillator sounds, without long release, but, when I activate unison, or play some sounds with long release, it's absolutely unusable.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Studio One 4.recursive one wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:54 pmWhat DAW are you using? I think these knob names are assigned by your host and aren't specific to the emu itself. The cutoffs are CC40 (filter 1) and CC41 (filter 2), they are called just "control 40" and "contorol 41" here. Tweaking these knobs does change the cutoff, as I hear.chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:38 pmThat's how I did it: Mapped some of those CC's to my controller's controls, and played a bit with the init patch, using the program change on the Virus emu's interface.recursive one wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:28 pmLook here for the Virus CC list https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php? ... ters-list/chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm What are the controls of the Virus emulator plugin actually doing? I was wondering about that. A lot of those had names like "Control 69", and, whenever they had actual parameter names, the parameter names didn't seem to match the controls of the ROM.
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
What I wonder though is what are these controls on the Virus emu's interface? I can't make sense of it, especially as they don't seem to always do what the knob's names suggest (e.g., the filter cutoff doesn't do anything with the Virus' filter cutoff. Only the program change, and some general things work as they should).
I can only guess here, but, maybe the parameter names on the Virus emu's GUI reflect general MIDI CC parameters, as you say, unspecific to the ROM which is loaded. No idea though.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
Ah, I see, it does have a "cutoff" indeed. It just seems to display a generic Midi CC list which doesn't correspond to CCs in the Virus anyhow.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6259 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
You don't need to load a second instance , the virus is 16 part multitimbral .recursive one wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:28 pmLook here for the Virus CC list https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php? ... ters-list/chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm What are the controls of the Virus emulator plugin actually doing? I was wondering about that. A lot of those had names like "Control 69", and, whenever they had actual parameter names, the parameter names didn't seem to match the controls of the ROM.
Sorry if that's a stupid question (I assume it is).
I couldn't get the Virus HC to work for whatever reason (must have messed up with the midi inputs/ outputs somewhere I guess, despite I followed their guide carefully) but the emu works fine with the Studio One generic control surface. I kinda makes a sound, I can select presets (without seeing their names though) and tweak things, program some midis and bounce it, but I'm getting a lot of CPU spikes and audio dropouts in a random manner (Virus B ROM, new i5). Loading a second instance may crash Studio One, though not always (good to know it may be used as multi-instance in principle).
Hope they improve the perfomance and make a GUI soon. Hearing that Virus sound in my DAW without my Virus being connected made my heart beat faster
Just point another midi channel track to the emulator to control the other 15 parts .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
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- KVRAF
- 4889 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
You are right I apologize. It was my usual "ready for KVR" response but it wasn't needed. Sorry.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
Yes, but Virus doesn't have 16 stereo outputs afaik.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:08 am You don't need to load a second instance , the virus is 16 part multitimbral .
Just point another midi channel track to the emulator to control the other 15 parts .
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRist
- 460 posts since 5 Jan, 2004 from In the now
This is the most exciting project to follow since the introduction of the entire VST concept in my opinion.
Has anyone been able to store patches in Cubase? Or has made settings recall work in projects?
Has anyone been able to store patches in Cubase? Or has made settings recall work in projects?
"If less is more, just think of how much more, more will be".
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
... and is limited to 16 voices.recursive one wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:45 amYes, but Virus doesn't have 16 stereo outputs afaik.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:08 am You don't need to load a second instance , the virus is 16 part multitimbral .
Just point another midi channel track to the emulator to control the other 15 parts .
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- KVRAF
- 1538 posts since 20 Feb, 2003
A 1st gen (2.66GHz) i7 will scrape 108 MIPS, in the test tool, with a prevailing wind. So almost any i7 "should" manage the Virus B minimum in theory. In practise background tasks, system factors, and host performance means it'll need some sort of margin.
However the overhead, the emulator itself requires, is significant. Though it's not "oranges to oranges", to give some idea of just how much - the raw MIPS performance of said 1st gen i7 is 82,300 MIPS, to (almost) generate 108 MIPS with the Virus B rom. On the Mac side the performance appears approx 10% worse, though the test tool delivered more stable MIPS numbers than Windows.
The fact it exists at all is technically impressive. But, once you get past that appreciation, the reality is that it has the feel of something which is still at an early stage, and whether people use it will likely depend a lot on how much things can be smoothed out and CPU performance improved. If not then it may remain just an interesting curiosity for many.
Performance would have to improve a lot for some synths. EG Clavia threw much more DSP at things (in order to run at 96kHz internally) and thus would require large performance improvements to fit on a single core. The Virus cut costs by doing everything on a single chip, but the TDM/Powercore VST Virus (which was based on the Virus B but, iirc, had the Virus C's extra arp features) could display timing issues when the DSP load generated got anywhere close to the maximum, and that was likely part of the reason why it was limited to being 4 part multi-timbral. Meaning it seems like Access ran things pretty close to the edge, in terms of squeezing what they could out of a single chip, and those alternatives had some issues even when using Motorola DSP's themselves.
On my system the bat test files generated correct sound, but the FX didn't seem to be working properly when used as a plugin. Some presets sounded normal whilst others barely made sound. Switching focus to something else, then going back, was enough to have it stop responding until reloaded.
I've seen some mention some sort of GUI. I think that's host specific (they're auto generating a generic CC interface) as nothing was displayed for me in Cubase. The plugin will respond to MIDI program and bank select changes just fine and, likewise, mapping controls to the relevant MIDI CC's should see them respond - though previously mentioned bugs mean they may not always behave as expected. I think the whole loopack thing maybe created some confusion too, with some failing to understand it was just to enable GUI control with utils which send MIDI messages to the hardware.
However the overhead, the emulator itself requires, is significant. Though it's not "oranges to oranges", to give some idea of just how much - the raw MIPS performance of said 1st gen i7 is 82,300 MIPS, to (almost) generate 108 MIPS with the Virus B rom. On the Mac side the performance appears approx 10% worse, though the test tool delivered more stable MIPS numbers than Windows.
The fact it exists at all is technically impressive. But, once you get past that appreciation, the reality is that it has the feel of something which is still at an early stage, and whether people use it will likely depend a lot on how much things can be smoothed out and CPU performance improved. If not then it may remain just an interesting curiosity for many.
Performance would have to improve a lot for some synths. EG Clavia threw much more DSP at things (in order to run at 96kHz internally) and thus would require large performance improvements to fit on a single core. The Virus cut costs by doing everything on a single chip, but the TDM/Powercore VST Virus (which was based on the Virus B but, iirc, had the Virus C's extra arp features) could display timing issues when the DSP load generated got anywhere close to the maximum, and that was likely part of the reason why it was limited to being 4 part multi-timbral. Meaning it seems like Access ran things pretty close to the edge, in terms of squeezing what they could out of a single chip, and those alternatives had some issues even when using Motorola DSP's themselves.
On my system the bat test files generated correct sound, but the FX didn't seem to be working properly when used as a plugin. Some presets sounded normal whilst others barely made sound. Switching focus to something else, then going back, was enough to have it stop responding until reloaded.
I've seen some mention some sort of GUI. I think that's host specific (they're auto generating a generic CC interface) as nothing was displayed for me in Cubase. The plugin will respond to MIDI program and bank select changes just fine and, likewise, mapping controls to the relevant MIDI CC's should see them respond - though previously mentioned bugs mean they may not always behave as expected. I think the whole loopack thing maybe created some confusion too, with some failing to understand it was just to enable GUI control with utils which send MIDI messages to the hardware.
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Your CPU needs at least 200 MIPs to run the emulator, is my estimation. I have an average of 150 MIPs in the test tool, and the Virus emu ist still pretty much unusable.