Choral Works No. 1 - LOSE

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ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:26 pm
Yes this definitely works very well for me - good listen... quite a few interesting, unexpected and lovely moments along the way.
tomtom1 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:51 am Whitacre was mentioned, it's worth checking out - or Ola Gjeilo (Northern lights, Ubi caritas) - both composers are "big" in the choir-scene. Or Kehoe: Flow water - to get some more inspriation - if you don't know them already...
100% agree with Thomas here. On a couple of listens, you definitely have a choral sound that is in the same general area...difference for me at the moment especially with EW is:

1) The way his choral music slowly, subtly expands, widens, grows, blossoms to a sometimes extraordinary degree over a piece. There are elements of this approach with your piece, but for me it needed to 'grow' even more.

2) EW - I always find myself listening to the inside parts almost as much as the top lines a lot of the time - it's often NOT just about melody and accompaniment as each and every part is a strong melody in its own right...of course the trick here is to do so without losing the overall sense of togetherness that is utterly crucial in this style of choral music! This is an area, I think for future development maybe? Linked to that point - the constant gentle interplay between parts with EW.
mediumaevum wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:30 pm I miss some more advanced counterpoint.
I get the point, but not for me in this particular musical context - there are clear little glimpses of polyphony at times here and that's fine, but this style of music does not overdo this aspect as it's all about the gentle rise and fall of the overall wash of sound.
shawshawraw wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:07 pm It gives me quite an Eric Whitacre feel - the use of chord extensions, the push and pull of harmonic rhythm
Totally agree - especially the ebb and flow of the harmonic pace, but...

EW's sonorities are NOT just about extended chords, possibly even more important are these two points:

1) Often the extended chords do not move / resolve as expected...if they actually resolve at all!

2) Those intense peaks in his pieces are often centred around extraordinary note clusters rather than chords as such - he is often writing melodically (horizontally) with the interaction between separate parts creating the harmonies (vertical aspect).

with EW sometimes the sustained use of a note is mystifying until you hit one of those clusters and the whole sonority 'lifts' and you realize why that one note has been there for so long! :)

'With a Lily in Your Hand' measures 1-3 - an already present E in the tenor suddenly takes precedence in the piece as it is joined by a B major triad....B D# F# to form what can only really be described as a cluster.

I think that many of EW's most intense 'moments' go beyond analysis via traditional extended triads.
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Thank you so much for your detailed response again, Mark.
So many great insights that will help a lot in development.
I think one of the most accurate points of development you write. To be able to write strong, unique parts individually, yet they belong together, are equal, and together can create the whole, because that's how everything in the world works.
The best thing in composing in my opinion is the development, experimentation, the discovery, that illuminates very important things. It is a wonderful road.

I also thank you all your suggestion for choral pieces.

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tomtom1 wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:26 am
ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:26 pm On a couple of listens, you definitely have a choral sound that is in the same general area...
i totally agree.

@adam: but it is always worth checking out some choir-works of the past era. in some you can already hear things, that are common nowadays (sound, emotion). maybe for some further inspiration.
(btw. i don't know what background you have.)

Poulenc (1899-1963)- Quatre motets pour un Temps de Pénitence
Stanford (1852-1920) - The blue bird (could be composed yesterday ... somehow :) )
Max Reger (1873-1916) - Oh Tod, wie bitter bist du (especially the beginning - awesome, but don't copy the diffuculty)
Thank you very much! I am very happy to listen to choral works from all eras.
They are fantastic, interesting and there is so much knowledge (both intellectual and emotional) in them.

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tadam1983 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:37 am I really like the idea of sacred version but I didn’t planned lyrics for this piece because the story that inspired me to write this music can’t be expressed in words for me. Do you think it could be work in this way?
I mean, is the piece able to express loss, irreversibility, but the hope floating there above it all in this form as well?
puh.... that's a hard question. i know that there are choir-works around (arvo pärt - solfege) without lyrics. if you really want to do it this way i would suggest to think about hte idea the use of different vocals: maybe a dark "a" in dramatic scenes? maybe a light "u" when there is hope?

but tbh, when I think of practice now (of a real normal choir). every choir singer always asks: why are we singing this? what does that mean? what is the story behind? - as a conducter, you need to answer those questions. it's important - especially if the singers are non-professionals or semi-professionals. the listeners also need a story or at least some hints. In my opinion, it would be desirable if the title of the piece was followed by a explaining sentence. so that the "normal" listener has a little more information. (like the sentence after preludes for pinao by Debussy).

but adding a text, makes a lot of things so much easier :D - but it is your work, and only my opinion! :oops:
it is better to have a track with some mistakes than a track without any soul
myself in 2022

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tomtom1 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:55 am
tadam1983 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:37 am I really like the idea of sacred version but I didn’t planned lyrics for this piece because the story that inspired me to write this music can’t be expressed in words for me. Do you think it could be work in this way?
I mean, is the piece able to express loss, irreversibility, but the hope floating there above it all in this form as well?
puh.... that's a hard question. i know that there are choir-works around (arvo pärt - solfege) without lyrics. if you really want to do it this way i would suggest to think about hte idea the use of different vocals: maybe a dark "a" in dramatic scenes? maybe a light "u" when there is hope?

but tbh, when I think of practice now (of a real normal choir). every choir singer always asks: why are we singing this? what does that mean? what is the story behind? - as a conducter, you need to answer those questions. it's important - especially if the singers are non-professionals or semi-professionals. the listeners also need a story or at least some hints. In my opinion, it would be desirable if the title of the piece was followed by a explaining sentence. so that the "normal" listener has a little more information. (like the sentence after preludes for pinao by Debussy).

but adding a text, makes a lot of things so much easier :D - but it is your work, and only my opinion! :oops:
Thank you, I didn't even think about that, although it makes absolute sense.
Unfortunately there is not much option in my virtual choir,
but I will write to the choir leader and discuss with her the things you have raised.
You’re right, it would be really important to let the performers and listeners know what the piece is about.

Thank you very much for your help!

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tadam1983 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:09 am Unfortunately there is not much option in my virtual choir,
I don't know what money you have for getting another one, but there are quite a few with syllable / word building facilities...

This is without doubt my favourite for a slightly more restrained, chamber choir approach:

https://www.fluffyaudio.com/shop/dominuschoir/ (often on sale as well)

The 'Pro' version has a few more epic elements as well.

This shows what is possible (not too bad considering they were all played 'live' as little sketches):

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=536760&p=7614242#p7614242
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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ChameleonMusic wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:25 am
tadam1983 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:09 am Unfortunately there is not much option in my virtual choir,
I don't know what money you have for getting another one, but there are quite a few with syllable / word building facilities...

This is without doubt my favourite for a slightly more restrained, chamber choir approach:

https://www.fluffyaudio.com/shop/dominuschoir/ (often on sale as well)

The 'Pro' version has a few more epic elements as well.

This shows what is possible (not too bad considering they were all played 'live' as little sketches):

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=536760&p=7614242#p7614242
Amazing work, thank you for sharing! Dominus is incredible indeed and as I see, summer sale is coming. (It was in August last year)

I use the Choirs from Metropolis Ark 1-2 and from Time macro these days.
I bought Insolidus a few weeks ago by the big 8Dio sale but it is very limited in my opinion. Great sounding library but Dominus is much better.

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tadam1983 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:05 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:25 am
tadam1983 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:09 am Unfortunately there is not much option in my virtual choir,
I don't know what money you have for getting another one, but there are quite a few with syllable / word building facilities...

This is without doubt my favourite for a slightly more restrained, chamber choir approach:

https://www.fluffyaudio.com/shop/dominuschoir/ (often on sale as well)

The 'Pro' version has a few more epic elements as well.

This shows what is possible (not too bad considering they were all played 'live' as little sketches):

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=536760&p=7614242#p7614242
Amazing work, thank you for sharing! Dominus is incredible indeed and as I see, summer sale is coming. (It was in August last year)

I use the Choirs from Metropolis Ark 1-2 and from Time macro these days.
I bought Insolidus a few weeks ago by the big 8Dio sale but it is very limited in my opinion. Great sounding library but Dominus is much better.
Ark 1 and 2 - very usable!

Time Macro is on my watch list for various reasons!!!

Insolidus - yes, it's fine, but has never really 'grabbed me' as such! I bought it cheap as well, but rarely use it at all apart from extra texture in more hybrid pieces.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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That was very evocative. Floated beautifully.
:)
Bandcamp
Music with progressive intent.

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Allomerus wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:17 am That was very evocative. Floated beautifully.
:)
Thank you very much!

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