20th century classical music

[aMUSEd]

@aMUSEd

how come you name my favorite Mingus record in the first try

because it's mine too

[Sepheritoh]

Probably the best classical from the 20th century to me is the Planets by Holst and guitar concerto aranjues by Rodrigo.

Other favourites, going into the 21st century is the LOTR score by Shore.

[visa tapani]

Ellington, Mingus, Abdullah Ibrahim, Shepp etc all treated their art with the sophistication of any of the above composer's imho - they were not merely making trivial "pop" but experimenting seriously with new forms of expression.

Eh, so what if they made sophisticated music? Since when has classical music been defined as umm, music that is sophisticated? And what are you saying - since he isn't making pop, he must be making classical? I haven't yet read any reasonable explanation as to why these jazz legends should be tagged classical composers. To the original question, yes, I listen to a lot of 20th century classical music. Actually, I listen to far more 20th century classical than stuff made earlier. This music resonates stronger in me.

Some of my favorites are Claude Debussy, Erik Satie, Jean Sibelius, Arvo Pärt, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Gavin Bryars, Richard Strauss, Edgard Varèse, Morton Feldman and Einojuhani Rautavaara.

[nuffink]

Eh, so what if they made sophisticated music? Since when has classical music been defined as umm, music that is sophisticated?

Interesting. I have no idea what classical music is defined as. Would you care to enlighten me?

[aMUSEd]

Ellington, Mingus, Abdullah Ibrahim, Shepp etc all treated their art with the sophistication of any of the above composer's imho - they were not merely making trivial "pop" but experimenting seriously with new forms of expression.

Eh, so what if they made sophisticated music? Since when has classical music been defined as umm, music that is sophisticated? And what are you saying - since he isn't making pop, he must be making classical? I haven't yet read any reasonable explanation as to why these jazz legends should be tagged classical composers.

I wasn't saying it's "clasical" merely because it's sophisticated or not pop. I was saying it's of a comparable level of sophistication. If you recall I was actually questioning what the term means as it just seems to be used pretty arbitrarily - hence Milhaud is "classical" and Mingus is "Jazz". As the composers you site show - the term covers such a huge variety of styles I think it seems more of a convenience than a real definition.

[visa tapani]

I wasn't saying it's "clasical" merely because it's sophisticated or not pop. I was saying it's of a comparable level of sophistication. If you recall I was actually questioning what the term means as it just seems to be used pretty arbitrarily - hence Milhaud is "classical" and Mingus is "Jazz". As the composers you site show - the term covers such a huge variety of styles I think it seems more of a convenience than a real definition.

Okay then.

Interesting. I have no idea what classical music is defined as. Would you care to enlighten me?

Well, as in other genre definitions, I believe in the institutional path. What is institutionally regarded as classical music is classical music. So it's the scene that defines the genre, not some musical qualities.

[rok]

I am a big fan of Mahler.
3 years ago I listened to at least one Mahler symphony a day for a whole year...mixed with ozrics and the like. It was also very interesting reading the score while listening.

[tetraplan]

Schnittke.
The Americans: Reich, LaMonte Young, Riley, Morton Feldman. Well, and early Glass, but he's been making incredibly cheesy stuff the last decade and a half.
Pärt.
Xenakis. Not that I like his stuff, but it's important.
Berio.

Groet, Erik

[VicDiesel]

stravinsky, schoenberg, scriabin, hindemith...

The period till 1930. Cool.

For post-war, some people already mentioned the minimalists (Reich &such) and Messiaen, but also check out Luciano Berio and Iannis Xenakis. Both of them make occasional noises about scientific theories behind their music, but you can ignore that. It's just cool stuff.

For a classical forum, check out the newsgroup rec.music.classical.

V.

[cyanogen]

George Crumb

Crumb's piano pieces are quite strange, often incorporating demonic-sounding voices from the performer him/herself.

Harry Partch

Partch invented numerous instruments, often created from found objects.

http://www.harrypartch.com/

[aMUSEd]

Oh I forgot Partch (and Riley) - both favourites of mine.

Since we're on US music I'd also mention Barber's Hermit Songs - I'm not a major Barber fan but these are just sublime (some of his other stuff is good too).

Copland can be good (and can be cheesy)

I'ves is one of my musical gods.

[visa tapani]

early Glass, but he's been making incredibly cheesy stuff the last decade and a half.

I partly agree, but I still think Glassworks (1993) is pretty sublime.

[TechNoiZ]

visa tapani wrote:

aMUSEd wrote:

I wasn't saying it's "clasical" merely because it's sophisticated or not pop. I was saying it's of a comparable level of sophistication. If you recall I was actually questioning what the term means as it just seems to be used pretty arbitrarily - hence Milhaud is "classical" and Mingus is "Jazz". As the composers you site show - the term covers such a huge variety of styles I think it seems more of a convenience than a real definition.

Okay then.

Interesting. I have no idea what classical music is defined as. Would you care to enlighten me?

Well, as in other genre definitions, I believe in the institutional path. What is institutionally regarded as classical music is classical music. So it's the scene that defines the genre, not some musical qualities

Classical Music, like many other forms of art, musical or otherwise, is an electable artform. The principals upon which comparison is made to the music of the archetypal triumvirate of 'classical' composers - The First Viennese School: Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven - are based on levels of sophistication which cover a diverse range of properties, or qualities; form, structure, voice-leading, cadence, balance and aesthetic to name but a few. Their (the first Viennese School) music is deemed 'classical' just because it is the music against which other music is, and has been classified. It is up to the current members of the 'classical institution' to decide whether music follows these principals - this is what keeps classical music alive, and did so especially in the early 20th century when composers such as Schoenberg, Berg and Webern - The (so called) Second Viennese School - attempted to break with tradition, yet keep true to the principals.

Composers who stray too far from the path are rejected as following the classical tradition by the current institution - but may be brought back into the fold at any time if a convincing argument, or interpretation of their work can be formulated to resolve the differences and assimilate the new aesthetic into the current definition.

Classical music, like all art, must satisfy some preset conditions AND add new ideas to survive. And, through constant evaluation, re-evaluation, aesthetic pruning AND assimilation, it survives, BORG-like, in the 21st Century.

We need distance and hindsight to truly evaluate works of art, and we don't yet have enough of these to state difinitively whether jazz and other 20th century genres fit within the living tradition.

[tetraplan]

Oh!
Forgot all about Louis Andriessen.
I want to say Reinbert de Leeuw, but I don't think I've ever actually heard his stuff- just seen him conduct.

Groet, Erik

[Pantsdown666]

Bela Bartok's 4th string quartet might please you as well.

my favourite