Do the monitors even matter in an untreated room? Debating JBL 305P MkII vs PreSonus Eris 4.5 or 3.5

[BONES]

The good thing about living on a boat is that the water stays a lot warmer through winter than everything else. When it's 5 degrees outside, the water temp is still 17 degrees, which means it's much milder inside the boat than outside. I don't really feel the cold, though, I wear shorts and a t-shirt pretty much 365 days a year and I mostly only put a jacket on when it's raining.

I'll try to illustrate this.
I wrote something here:

Code: Select all

This is an acoustic dip/null. Try to compensate for it.

The more you do irrelevant shit like this, the more obvious it is that you don't understand anything about what I am saying. There has never been the need for any "back and forth" for me. From the first test renders I did with the Eris's they sounded perfect in the car and everywhere else I listened to them because by the time I did any test renders I had already been using them for a year. I'd probably listened to 300-400 albums on them by that time, any compensation my ears/head were doing was subconscious so everything just worked. So unless I really am a genius/savant, which I think we can both agree is not the case, I really don't understand why you feel you have to go to so much effort to do what comes naturally to me.

I said that nearfields not being prone to acoustic garbage is incorrect, which it is.

OK, so the argument is all about semantics. "Eliminate" in this context really means "reduce to the point where it ceases to be an issue that will affect your ability to do good work". Hundreds of thousands of people do the nearfield thing every day, what do you think you know that they don't?

[chagzuki]

I posted a similar thread several months back and I'm still undecided on what to buy. I'd pretty much settled on Mackies in the budget range as reviews suggest they sound compatible to JBLs but have better amplifiers and don't suffer from the hum/hiss that often comes in the price range. But I still can't decide on the size... and I'm quite impressed by what I'm seeing of Adam A3Xs; they're not too expensive and seem sonically very close to Genelec 8020s. Bass down to around 60 hz... probably a decent compromise. Iloud MTMs tick most boxes other than that they're quite pricey and seem significantly more prone to developing faults, as one might expect from more complex tech.

[Passing Bye]

Adam's aren't sonically close to Genelec's tho, they are close to EVE's, HEDD's and the likes. If you are even considering A3X, get MR524's than.

[chagzuki]

Adam's aren't sonically close to Genelec's tho, they are close to EVE's, HEDD's and the likes. If you are even considering A3X, get MR524's than.

My impression from YouTube videos is that the A3X specifically is, and uncharacteristically so compared to the rest of the X line. They seem to be very balanced and very clear, just a bit more hyped in the highs compared to the Genelecs. I'm not so keen on the other Adam models, and if opting for a larger speaker would go for the Eve SC207 probably... at least, based on research so far.

[Passing Bye]

Adam's aren't sonically close to Genelec's tho, they are close to EVE's, HEDD's and the likes. If you are even considering A3X, get MR524's than.

My impression from YouTube videos is that the A3X specifically is, and uncharacteristically so compared to the rest of the X line. They seem to be very balanced and very clear, just a bit more hyped in the highs compared to the Genelecs. I'm not so keen on the other Adam models, and if opting for a larger speaker would go for the Eve SC207 probably... at least, based on research so far.

You can't really hear speakers properly from recording of them via You Tube and even like that you noticed different sonic signature, imagine sitting in room with them and actually hearing how detailed they actually are, getting true sense of depth and imaging, it's studio monitors, that's what matters, not how they can reproduce music in hi fi sense, how much low end they have, are mid's balanced and is hi end overly bright or not, that doesn't really say much about how useful they are as monitors.

[chagzuki]

Yeah, I know, but I've had several months to do a lot of listening, so I place some stock in the aggregate of what I've seen, combined with frequency charts.

[Passing Bye]

Yeah, I know, but I've had several months to do a lot of listening, so I place some stock in the aggregate of what I've seen, combined with frequency charts.

Just go and listen to the stuff in person, recording can't really give you true sense of them or even those frequency charts, you can't really capture those ribbon tweeters, if you are really basing your opinion on them listening those recordings or personal opinion of people, you are in for the big surprise, my honest advice is before you buy Adam, EVE or whatever, go listen to them in person, they maybe aren't your cup of tea at all, find monitors you find suiting for your taste.

[cryophonik]

Just go and listen to the stuff in person, recording can't really give you true sense of them or even those frequency charts, you can't really capture those ribbon tweeters, if you are really basing your opinion on them listening those recordings or personal opinion of people, you are in for the big surprise, my honest advice is before you buy Adam, EVE or whatever, go listen to them in person, they maybe aren't your cup of tea at all, find monitors you find suiting for your taste.

That would certainly be ideal, but it's way easier said than done for some of us. I live in a fairly large city with several music stores, but no stores within 50 miles of me have any Adam, EVE, or Genelec monitors in stock to listen to in person, let alone all of them in the same room to compare. Not to mention that the room in the music store in which you're listening to them is typically going to be much larger and have much different acoustics than your own studio space, so that's a huge wild card in and of itself.

I also recently bought new monitors (Genelec 8020D and 7040a subwoofer) and had to buy them blind (err.... deaf, I guess). I relied on reviews, specs, frequency charts, brand reputation, and yes, those YouTube vids comparing different speakers. The videos do at least give you a general sense of how two sets of monitors compare, if not a sense of how they'll sound in your own room. My experience was that the Genelecs sounded about how I expected/hoped they would sound, if not even better. Now, the real test will be seeing how my mixes translate.

[Hink]

once you have found them nevERRRRRRR let them go

[chagzuki]

I also recently bought new monitors (Genelec 8020D and 7040a subwoofer) and had to buy them blind (err.... deaf, I guess). I relied on reviews, specs, frequency charts, brand reputation, and yes, those YouTube vids comparing different speakers. The videos do at least give you a general sense of how two sets of monitors compare, if not a sense of how they'll sound in your own room. My experience was that the Genelecs sounded about how I expected/hoped they would sound, if not even better. Now, the real test will be seeing how my mixes translate.

Yes, all of that, plus the placing of speakers in shops often isn't ideal for listening purposes.

I'd be very interested to know how you're finding them, how often you find yourself using the sub/how comfortable you are working without it.

[Passing Bye]

That would certainly be ideal, but it's way easier said than done for some of us. I live in a fairly large city with several music stores, but no stores within 50 miles of me have any Adam, EVE, or Genelec monitors in stock to listen to in person, let alone all of them in the same room to compare. Not to mention that the room in the music store in which you're listening to them is typically going to be much larger and have much different acoustics than your own studio space, so that's a huge wild card in and of itself.

I also recently bought new monitors (Genelec 8020D and 7040a subwoofer) and had to buy them blind (err.... deaf, I guess). I relied on reviews, specs, frequency charts, brand reputation, and yes, those YouTube vids comparing different speakers. The videos do at least give you a general sense of how two sets of monitors compare, if not a sense of how they'll sound in your own room. My experience was that the Genelecs sounded about how I expected/hoped they would sound, if not even better. Now, the real test will be seeing how my mixes translate.

Sure, same story here locally, one store maybe have mostly Genelec's and Mackie's, other mostly Focals and EVE's, third mostly Adams and etc, but my point is to at least hear something in person, especially those ribbon ones, you can't hear their true color on those videos, those frequency charts doesn't really paint actual amount of top end they are giving in person, you really can't hear front to back depth in those videos, fine details, distortions, compression, reverb tails and etc. Even in worst room, it's better and more truthful experience than You Tube.

Someone stating that Genelec and Adam have similar sonic signature should testify about how misleading those videos can be, they are valuable in their own merit, but shouldn't be taken more valuable than they actually are. Someone buying speakers for music enjoyment, gaming and casual music making could actually get plenty out of that content, this have enough bass/mid/hi, this sounds balanced and so on, but someone buying mixing tool can't really stop there.

Sorry, maybe this isn't stuff people like to hear, but I'm not here trying to win popularity contest, just using my spare time to help someone to at least avoid making a mistake.

[Hink]

so you dont think if one is consistent using commercial monitors that do indeed work well for others that they cannot indeed create work habits and eventually through said consistency end up creating fantastic mixes with those monitors? Monitors are reference monitors, they are not designed to sound good...they are intended to sound accurate and the same every time...imo opinion it is a mistake to even change your monitors if you have some you are happy with (add to yes, replace, no).

My monitors were won in a sales competition at Mars music in 1999, I still use them because I know what to listen to on those...if I go to a store to replace them and listen (and I sold many just that way) how am I gonna gather such info as I have now? I will I know they will be as good as I have now? The only thing I know for sure is the ones I have now are indeed as good as the ones I have now and I am very comfortable with them...I cant imagine anything else mattering tbh.

So how on earth is he making a mistake?...He is not talking about going and getting some toy speakers from an old stereo, he is talking about well known monitors. I think you are the one that is misleading

[Ploki]

despite what bones said i firmly believe that room imposes at least 50% to what you hear from speakers

[Passing Bye]

so you dont think if one is consistent using commercial monitors that do indeed work well for others that they cannot indeed create work habits and eventually through said consistency end up creating fantastic mixes with those monitors? Monitors are reference monitors, they are not designed to sound good...they are intended to sound accurate and the same every time...imo opinion it is a mistake to even change your monitors if you have some you are happy with (add to yes, replace, no).

My monitors were won in a sales competition at Mars music in 1999, I still use them because I know what to listen to on those...if I go to a store to replace them and listen (and I sold many just that way) how am I gonna gather such info as I have now? I will I know they will be as good as I have now? The only thing I know for sure is the ones I have now are indeed as good as the ones I have now and I am very comfortable with them...I cant imagine anything else mattering tbh.

So how on earth is he making a mistake?...He is not talking about going and getting some toy speakers from an old stereo, he is talking about well known monitors. I think you are the one that is misleading

I actually agree with you and never claimed anything different than you, but I think you completely missed my point, it was basing and forming opinion only on You Tube videos, really tried to put that point across and tried to expand on all of that, but maybe I wasn't clear enough?

But if I'm misleading people by actually recommending them to hear speakers in person too, than guess I'm sorry for doing that, wasn't my intention.

[chagzuki]

Someone stating that Genelec and Adam have similar sonic signature should testify about how misleading those videos can be, they are valuable in their own merit, but shouldn't be taken more valuable than they actually are. Someone buying speakers for music enjoyment, gaming and casual music making could actually get plenty out of that content, this have enough bass/mid/hi, this sounds balanced and so on, but someone buying mixing tool can't really stop there.

Sorry, maybe this isn't stuff people like to hear, but I'm not here trying to win popularity contest, just using my spare time to help someone to at least avoid making a mistake.

Best thing of course is to learn as much as possible so that before you test speakers in person you know what you're looking for, and narrowed your choice.
What I've said is that those specific models are closer than one would expect given how the rest of the ranges sound, and close enough that the Adam S3X is good value for money.
The quality of speakers in general is high enough now that one ought to be able to get decent mixes on anything from the lowest tier up, the rest is really more about decisions of value for money over the long term. I've found myself wondering whether to just go for the Genelec given that they'll last a very long time. Still undecided. I do wonder whether more brands will release MTM type designs, in which case I suppose it might not be wise to be thinking of a long-term single purchase.