Do the monitors even matter in an untreated room? Debating JBL 305P MkII vs PreSonus Eris 4.5 or 3.5

[Hink]

I guess I just dont understand what you mean by more...here's my thing...absolutely brilliant music that will stand the test of time along with the best (for lack of a better term because it's the most bogus term in the arts) productions of this time were recorded in the worst rooms on the worst gear...so forgive me...I dont get this superficial more stuff, never have, never will...

A good song is a good song, if one is striving to be a great producer or a great engineer that is a different story, they want to show their work, their skills but please do not sit there and suggest my music or your music is less because our values are different than some you think must be great. I believe your music is not mediocre and I haven't listened to it, you have passion and that means a lot to me.

That's imo is what has changed in the digital age, we had less tools and did so much with them...and now IK is selling rooms to some of yall

In all these years I have never had someone suggest my music would be better with a better room, or a better guitar, or a better amp, or a better synth, or a better mixing board, or better monitors...I sure have had a lot of people tell me I am a crap musician, a talentless hack, no original thoughts, I suck...but never I need a better room...you see haters dont give constructive criticism and you cant hear a room FTR on the other side of the coin, I will only blame myself for things that dont workout, not my gear.

[BONES]

Abso-freakin'-lutely! Too many people around here get caught up in the process and lose sight of the purpose of all this stuff - to make music. This seems to be particularly true of a lot of dance genres, where production techniques seem to have become more important than any other aspect. Where using the right compressor has become more important than using the right sound. It's all arse-about.

Don't think anybody here is claiming you can't make great mixes in untreated room with cheap speakers, think we all done it and I'm still doing it right now, but you can make even better mixes in better room with better speakers, again what everyone is saying.

I don't agree with the second part at all. As I said yesterday, I honestly don't think I could do a better job if I got to mix and master in the best studio in the world. My equipment doesn't hold me back in any meaningful way. The one and only impediment to me doing better work is me. My production work gets better over time because I get better at doing it. In fact, I had my best set-up for our 3rd album and the set-up I used for no. 4 and no. 5 is measurably "worse' - much noisier environment with monitors that are smaller and cheaper than those I used for no. 3 - yet each of those albums sounds better than the previous ones. That can only be because I am getting better at it as I gain more experience.

You can form an opinion, it's just a greater risk, and much better to listen in person, if possible. But much better to listen to as many recordings as possible, cross reference recordings against tech details to help interpret the listening experience.

You can do all that once you get them. Honestly, it's hard to go wrong at any price point, just get what you can afford. Remember, there was a time when Yamaha NS-10s were in every studio around the world and those things are terrible. But every producer worth his/her salt (are there any female producers?) knew how they sounded and could use them to do good work. Those things alone make a lie of 90% of the garbage you read about monitors and monitoring.

The important thing is to learn how they sound and be able to compensate for any shortcomings. It's not a deliberate process, it's a simple matter of sitting down and listening to a lot of music on them before you start using them to produce your own music. Your brain will do all the work subconsciously.

[Passing Bye]

As I said yesterday, I honestly don't think I could do a better job if I got to mix and master in the best studio in the world. My equipment doesn't hold me back in any meaningful way.

Same here, think I already said that to Hink, I'm not in the mindset anymore where something like that would influence what I do or find any of that worth chasing anymore, I'm perfectly happy with results I get now, but I'm not someone anyone should look up to or those results are anything worth settling for.

[recursive one]

Recursive One is actually amazing producer and he is kind of guy that is pushing himself all the time and will never settle until he's at least on the level of the people he looks up to, I know from where they are coming from mentally and they can appreciate even 5% of improvement in their chain

Thank you for the kind words, mate!
Well, I realize i'll likely never be on the same level as E-Clip or Tristan, i remember in some of his production videos E-Clip said something like "in order to make something 2 times better you have to do 100 different things" or the like, don't remember the exact words but you get the idea. I guess the law of diminishing returns works everywhere in music production, the efforts you put into your productions, the monitors, the audio interface, the room treatment, expensive hardware or software, the more hours you spend and the more money you invest you get less and less improvements in return.

And there's also truth in that

Too many people around here get caught up in the process and lose sight of the purpose of all this stuff - to make music. This seems to be particularly true of a lot of dance genres, where production techniques seem to have become more important than any other aspect. Where using the right compressor has become more important than using the right sound. It's all arse-about.

I admire E-Clip as a producer, someone who has amazing skills and very refined technical mindset, but somewhow I like his older music way way more, I hear passion and emotion in his old albums, and in his new stuff I only hear the bass perfectly aligned to the kick and some perfectly equalized synth bits but not much actual music. That probably works better on the floor but I'm mostly a home listener.

There's some balance to be found and everyone has different goals and different tastes, some people enjoy things such as punk rock, industrial, black metal, underground electronica produced with some sh!t equipment and mixed in someone's basement, other people seek for an audiophile experience, there's no right and wrong here. Yet there are laws of acoustics that don't depend on anyone's taste, they are objective things. If your room has poor acoustics mixing here is like painting in a poorly-lit room with your sunglasses on. If you have years of experience in doing that and you've learned (maybe subconsciously) how to compensate the flaws of your monitoring, you may still deliver amazing results, and this may even happen that "wrong" mixing actually adds some charm and uniqueness to your music. But improving your acoustics will eliminate a lot of guesswork, reduce the need of cross-check and make your progress faster, I don't see how anyone can deny that.

[Passing Bye]

Thank you for the kind words, mate!
Well, I realize i'll likely never be on the same level as E-Clip or Tristan, i remember in some of his production videos E-Clip said something like "in order to make something 2 times better you have to do 100 different things" or the like, don't remember the exact words but you get the idea. I guess the law of diminishing returns works everywhere in music production, the efforts you put into your productions, the monitors, the room teratment, expensive hardware or software, the more hours you spend and the more money you invest you get less and less improvements in return.

Exactly, you need to push yourself further in order to get better, improvement is smaller and seeks more investment of ones time and money.

E-Clip is amazing artist and engineer, another guy worth looking up to is Jaycen Joshua, both have similar mindset and are constantly upping their game, while sharing techniques that maybe define their sound in order to reinvent themselves again, that's path to greatness right there.

[Passing Bye]

There's some balance to be found and everyone has different goals and different tastes, some people enjoy things such as punk rock, industrial, black metal, underground electronica produced with some sh!t equipment and mixed in someone's basement, other people seek for an audiophile experience, there's no right and wrong here. Yet there are laws of acoustics that don't depend on anyone's taste, they are objective things. If your room has poor acoustics mixing here is like painting in a poorly-lit room with your sunglasses on. If you have years of experience in doing that and you've learned (maybe subconsciously) how to compensate the flaws of your monitoring, you may still deliver amazing results, and this may even happen that "wrong" mixing actually adds some charm and uniqueness to your music. But improving your acoustics will eliminate a lot of guesswork, reduce the need of cross-check and make your progress faster, I don't see how anyone can deny that.

Absolutely!

[Passing Bye]

I guess I just dont understand what you mean by more...

More than what I settled with, more than what I think is good or quality enough.

A good song is a good song, if one is striving to be a great producer or a great engineer that is a different story, they want to show their work, their skills but please do not sit there and suggest my music or your music is less because our values are different than some you think must be great. I believe your music is not mediocre and I haven't listened to it, you have passion and that means a lot to me.

Absolutely, myself and plenty of people are there for the song, I can say sincerely my production is good enough to not be distraction and not take anything from the actual music, but nobody will use my music as reference either or I'm really at any admirable level, but I'm happy knowing how much (little?) I invested in all of it (production wise).

FTR on the other side of the coin, I will only blame myself for things that dont workout, not my gear.

Absolutely!

[recursive one]

I guess I just dont understand what you mean by more...

More than what I settled with, more than what I think is good or quality enough.

I love the KVR auto-links lol

another guy worth looking up to is Jaycen Joshua

Thanks, will chek out.

[Passing Bye]

I love the KVR auto-links lol

Interesting marketing approach, now he owns every capital more on KVR. Guess next product should be called Thank. One knob brick wall limiter from Mod Sound.

[recursive one]

Now someone should make a synth and call it "anal ogue", so each time Bones gets into discussion about analog gear it would pop up.

[Passing Bye]

Always wondered why anal part is made bold, I know this is highly off topic, but it's one of those things that always seems inappropriate to ask, but always keep me wondering.

[Ploki]

Always wondered why anal part is made bold, I know this is highly off topic, but it's one of those things that always seems inappropriate to ask, but always keep me wondering.

it's a joke about sodomy

Do you want to know what sodomy is?

[Passing Bye]

Afraid to answer But it sounds like lovely tittle for an edgy song “I wanna know what sodomy is”, I know you can show me!

[chagzuki]

You might end up not appreciating ribbons, happens to a lot of people, they got into them because someone else decided it's the way to go and after few years they get speakers they actually appreciate, it's really one of those things everyone should decide for themselves, what kind of signature he can appreciate and which doesn't, it will make your life so much easier and happier, your budget too.

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind.

[chagzuki]

This thread has gone a long way OT but in a good way. To continue, does anyone have a view as to why there hasn't been more competition already in the MTM design, given the success of the iLouds? Presonus had the larger Eris versions but they didn't seem to be well received and I'm not sure they're even still made.