Do record labels still exist?

[chagzuki]

Apparently they do. Obviously big labels for shite like Miley Cyrus still do, but to what extent are small labels real, and to what extent are they just a jpeg or gif that gets slapped on top of social media posts in order to create a false impression of 'legitimacy', as though there's some sort of serious organisation going on behind the scenes? I guess there must be a fair amount of organisation going on for bands who tour... I guess small labels must do some of that stuff.

[Passing Bye]

Well, if someone is willing to slap their logo and promote your music on different platforms where thousands of people can get in touch with your work, than it's as legitimate as it gets, better than having 12 views on Soundcloud/Bandcamp and releasing music on your own. If someone can ensure you to have some gigs being on their label, even better. I doubt Universal will release 99% of music out there, so smaller labels are what most people can shoot for, but small doesn't mean unsuccessful, some are established in some genres and sub genres, even if they aren't going to make millions with your music or much, they are still going to get your name out there and bring you closer to your fan base, than if you are into it, you can make a decent living performing your music. I don't think most people can live only on record sales and streams these days.

[chagzuki]

Well, if someone is willing to slap their logo and promote your music on different platforms where thousands of people can get in touch with your work, than it's as legitimate as it gets, better than having 12 views on Soundcloud/Bandcamp and releasing music on your own.

I must say, I'm so out of the loop. I was surprised to see Warp Records still a thing, though I have no idea what they represent nowadays, besides a sort of legacy. But the only reason I know they still exist is because I got interested in making music again... are you saying that small record labels can reach a wide audience mainly because they've developed canny social media strategies and have a lot of followers, or because they still have ties to mainstream media outlets?

[hoxclab]

Ya they still exist to pimp out artists and make them sign shitty deals they can never get out of. They are slaves to the record labels. Just look at Kanye.

[Passing Bye]

are you saying that small record labels can reach a wide audience mainly because they've developed canny social media strategies and have a lot of followers, or because they still have ties to mainstream media outlets?

Depends on the label, there's tons of them these days, anyone that makes music for more than two years have a label these days, first he starts releasing his music and than few folks join in, than he can put label owner/producer/whatever in his CV, it's quite ridiculous really.

Known and established labels are harder to get into and probably you need to pigeon hole yourself to their sound to even have a chance or actually have all the connections and popularity so they give you a chance, at that point you don't really need them.

There's small labels that have following for some reason, their You Tube channels are visited, their Spotify, Deezer and etc, there's genuine interest in that kind of music they put out for example and you start getting more and more followers, even if you stop releasing for that label, they will follow your own social media, even you can start a label at that point.

My advice is shoot for the biggest, but try to get at least on some local small ones, that host parties in your area, if you are interested in playing live, but even if not, having local support was never bad idea, local following, connections, business propositions, maybe you like to get involved in whole organization thing, throw parties and festivals, book acts and all that stuff.

Techno is still a thing and there's interest in tech, deep and progressive too, as far as club scene goes, at one point seemed like "underground" scene was doomed, but it survived EDM getting big in USA and now things are back in order, everyone got sick from it, even David Guetta got back to the roots, so in nutshell, you came back in right time.

[BONES]

That is very dependent on the type of music you do. Nobody hosts "parties" for what we do, they put on gigs and festivals and having the kind of profile a label can give you really helps getting you spots on those things, especially if they can get your music into the genre charts. We were charting a couple of spots lower than Taylor Swift on one of the German DJ charts last year which, along with our success in other charts, would have created opportunities to play if it weren't for Covid. And opportunities to play is why we exist.

Ya they still exist to pimp out artists and make them sign shitty deals they can never get out of. They are slaves to the record labels. Just look at Kanye.

That is the dumbest, most ignorant thing I've read in ages. Who gives a shit about dickheads like Kanye? He'd have nothing without record labels, he's no more talented than thousands of other people who never get the opportunities he's had. If he was stupid enough to sign his life away, that's 100% on him.

Apparently they do. Obviously big labels for shite like Miley Cyrus still do, but to what extent are small labels real, and to what extent are they just a jpeg or gif that gets slapped on top of social media posts in order to create a false impression of 'legitimacy', as though there's some sort of serious organisation going on behind the scenes? I guess there must be a fair amount of organisation going on for bands who tour... I guess small labels must do some of that stuff.

Labels don't usually do tours. There are separate organisations for that kind of thing, although they often have relationships with labels. Our label organises our releases - beyond getting us onto all the streaming and download services, they get us interviews, send out links for reviewers, get our stuff to the people who run the charts (outside the mainstream, charts are mostly voted on by industry people these days, sort of like the Oscars) and do all that stuff that we'd never get around to doing ourselves. They also get us off our arses and make us focus on that stuff. We've released 5 albums through our label now. Without them, I doubt we'd have released more than two because we'd keep fiddling with everything forever if they weren't there to gently prod is into getting our shit together. Our label is as important to us today as it was when we signed with them in 2002. I'd never even contemplate going it alone.

[hoxclab]

Maybe that's how it works in Germany but not here in the US. Artists are on a leash in the US. One wrong statement and you're cancelled. They sign 360 deals all the time and hold their masters away from the artists. Look at Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Prince, etc. Heck look at Jay-Z he had to sell Kanye's masters to get his own! C'mon it's well known the people at the record label have a tight grip on the artists and they are basically powerless like many employees are to employers.

[BONES]

You're talking about big labels, our label is just two guys. Our contract ended with them after two albums, in 2005. We stay with them because we want to. Watch 24 Hour Party People and see what Joy Division/New Order's relationship with their label was like. They signed a napkin in blood, as a joke, and that's the closest to a formal contract as they ever got, yet look at their success. BTW, we're not German.

[bermudagold]

People think just because you don't have to get your CD into Walmart and Best Buy anymore (distribution for brick and mortar retail), that labels are irrelevant...untrue...the same good ole boy networks have become the curators for the new tech based on the same relationships and mechanisms of control...labels still determine what gets played on terrestrial and satellite radio...sirius XM just started web only channels labelled "discovery" and "cloud" that play unsigned stuff that is trending or going viral online...but that is new and still curated by them...the payola process has just moved from radio to internet and mobile...because spotify for example has 60,000 new songs uploaded per day!...only money cuts through the noise floor
Labels also have the resources to help your PRO hunt down maximum performance royalties...and they control access to the emerging music small club circuits and college tours...and since 3 million streams a year on spotify translates to only 12K USD, ...you need as many revenue streams as possible.

[melomood]

I figured a label deal is what you got after a bit of YouTube/soundcloud fame. Like that guy "you got that yummy yummy" whatshisname that's on the tip of my tongue but I can't rem.....Justin Beaver

[BONES]

That's the thing, as revenues have declined, big labels aren't willing to spend money developing talent any more so they look to things like YT and talent shows to find bankable acts that are virtually risk-free for them. And they still have the system to turn millions of YT watches into millions of dollars for their artists, so both parties benefit.

...labels still determine what gets played on terrestrial and satellite radio...sirius XM just started web only channels labelled "discovery" and "cloud" that play unsigned stuff that is trending or going viral online...but that is new and still curated by them...the payola process has just moved from radio to internet and mobile...because spotify for example has 60,000 new songs uploaded per day!...only money cuts through the noise floor

Absolutely. Even if you are doin git all yourself, how do you get noticed any more? How do you get anyone to listen to your music? You'd have to spend hundreds of thousands promoting it and it's a hell of a risk.

...and since 3 million streams a year on spotify translates to only 12K USD, ...you need as many revenue streams as possible.

Yeah, I think that's a been a huge boon for the vinyl industry - it's one thing an artist can charge a premium for and make a bit of money on. If I sat down and looked at the figures, I'd probably discover we make more money from merch than from music sales. Of course, playing live actually costs us money so there's nothing in it except the joy it brings us.

[bermudagold]

Yeah, I think that's a been a huge boon for the vinyl industry - it's one thing an artist can charge a premium for and make a bit of money on. If I sat down and looked at the figures, I'd probably discover we make more money from merch than from music sales. Of course, playing live actually costs us money so there's nothing in it except the joy it brings us.

interesting that vinyl and even cassettes are making a comeback or at least finding a niche...and yeah you definitely need a solid merch plan to maximize that revenue stream today...as for going into the red playing live, it's hard to put a price on joy lol

[chagzuki]

interesting that vinyl and even cassettes are making a comeback or at least finding a niche...and yeah you definitely need a solid merch plan to maximize that revenue stream today...as for going into the red playing live, it's hard to put a price on joy lol

The cassettes is a weird one. With vinyl you get a package that works as a vehicle for artwork, but cassettes? I guess there's a novelty factor there for younger generations who grew up with digital media....? Seems like a stretch.

[Hink]

interesting that vinyl and even cassettes are making a comeback or at least finding a niche...and yeah you definitely need a solid merch plan to maximize that revenue stream today...as for going into the red playing live, it's hard to put a price on joy lol

The cassettes is a weird one. With vinyl you get a package that works as a vehicle for artwork, but cassettes? I guess there's a novelty factor there for younger generations who grew up with digital media....? Seems like a stretch.

the advantage of cassette pre-digital was being able to preserve vinyl. I tried to buy an even amount of albums (or a double), I preferred 90 minute Maxel udlxII...most albums were 30-45 minutes then so you could put one on each side of a tape. It was a ritual with us, one friend had a nice Nakamichi tape deck to record virgin vinyl on.

The tape that prerecorded albums came on was crap tape, cant see that being collected

[4damind]

Of course labels still exist Especially small independent labels that are often run by only 1-2 people. However, these labels usually do nothing more than license tracks or releases and then get them into the stores via larger distributors. The reach on social media is often so insignificantly small for these small labels that you can't expect a big advantage here. Basically, you only save the money to license the music to aggregators yourself, but then you usually give 50% of the already small income to the label.
Rarely that the label operators themselves have good connections in the music industry or can otherwise push the artists. Most of the time the small labels don't have professionals who can do high quality cover art or videos. In the end, artists on these small labels often have to take care of a lot of things themselves.

With major labels it looks a little different... they have real advertising contingents and also the corresponding background to do more for the artist... however, they are extremely picky and actually only sign artists who already have a certain fan base and popularity. Very rarely that there unknown artists are taken under contract