Before I buy pluginguru Unify, some questions

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRist
227 posts since 9 Mar, 2017

Post Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:48 am

keyman_sam wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:10 am
1. Unify standalone keeps bugging me to delete the demo folder though I've said "yes" everytime
The Unify Demo installer puts the Demo library into the default Unify data folder (C:\Users\Public\Documents\PlugInGuru\Unify on Windows, /Users/Shared/PlugInGuru/Unify on Mac), so if you chose to put the main Unify data folder somewhere else for the full install, you might need to go back and delete that whole default folder manually. This is supposed to happen automatically when you click "yes" as you described; if it does not, this could indicate either a bug or a folder-permissions issue on your machine.
2. Global velocity curve is not taking precedence over the patch's volume curve. I need to modify every patch to a playable curve.
The global velocity curves (one per MIDI channel) don't "take precedence over" the per-layer curves. The global curve is applied first, before any per-layer curves. The idea is to match the velocity response of your keyboard (and your playing style) to what the patch designer used when creating patches. See https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/dok ... ity_curves.
3. The "reverb baked into a patch" is a nice concept, except for when you pitch bend a note and all the preceding notes (the tails) get bent, so it's kind of useless for that. Better approach would have been to include a convolution reverb with those reverby patches. Having no control over them sucks.
You're talking about John's "MegaMagic" technique of baking reverb into samples. This is not specific to Unify, and has also been used in Omnisphere, Kontakt, etc. (It was done because Omnisphere only allows one user sample per layer.) Unify includes a nice convolution reverb called Klangfalter, which you can add on an AUX layer (or even on the Master layer) to any patch you like. To achieve the response you're seeking, either use dry samples, or, if you're using "MegaMagic" samples, shorten the Release time in Guru Sampler.
Wish there was a "global mute" button so I can mute the standalone app.
You could set this up by linking a macro knob to master/mixLevel (see https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/dok ... ime-params), but I'm curious why you ask for a master mute. AFAIK no one has ever asked for this before. Can you explain how you would use it?

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:28 pm

getdunne wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:48 am
keyman_sam wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:10 am
1. Unify standalone keeps bugging me to delete the demo folder though I've said "yes" everytime
The Unify Demo installer puts the Demo library into the default Unify data folder (C:\Users\Public\Documents\PlugInGuru\Unify on Windows, /Users/Shared/PlugInGuru/Unify on Mac), so if you chose to put the main Unify data folder somewhere else for the full install, you might need to go back and delete that whole default folder manually. This is supposed to happen automatically when you click "yes" as you described; if it does not, this could indicate either a bug or a folder-permissions issue on your machine.
2. Global velocity curve is not taking precedence over the patch's volume curve. I need to modify every patch to a playable curve.
The global velocity curves (one per MIDI channel) don't "take precedence over" the per-layer curves. The global curve is applied first, before any per-layer curves. The idea is to match the velocity response of your keyboard (and your playing style) to what the patch designer used when creating patches. See https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/dok ... ity_curves.
3. The "reverb baked into a patch" is a nice concept, except for when you pitch bend a note and all the preceding notes (the tails) get bent, so it's kind of useless for that. Better approach would have been to include a convolution reverb with those reverby patches. Having no control over them sucks.
You're talking about John's "MegaMagic" technique of baking reverb into samples. This is not specific to Unify, and has also been used in Omnisphere, Kontakt, etc. (It was done because Omnisphere only allows one user sample per layer.) Unify includes a nice convolution reverb called Klangfalter, which you can add on an AUX layer (or even on the Master layer) to any patch you like. To achieve the response you're seeking, either use dry samples, or, if you're using "MegaMagic" samples, shorten the Release time in Guru Sampler.
Wish there was a "global mute" button so I can mute the standalone app.
You could set this up by linking a macro knob to master/mixLevel (see https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/dok ... ime-params), but I'm curious why you ask for a master mute. AFAIK no one has ever asked for this before. Can you explain how you would use it?
Thanks for the detailed responses, I'll check it out. The release time thing is a good idea.
Can you explain how you would use it?
I use unify standalone while I'm composing, with mic routed via Ableton Live. This is even when I'm using Logic. So I have 3 apps - Logic with my main scoring stuff, Live with the talkback mic (for zoom calls) as a mic-mixer with reverb + gate, and Unify as my standalone rompler.

When I'm out of the composing mode [Live + Unify] and back into arrangement mode I need to quickly mute everything else other than Logic. A master mute would be mighty useful for that.

Bummer about the velocity curve - I can't keep adjusting every single one. The patches are way too quiet without adjusting the velocity curve. Don't know how others are dealing with that.

User avatar
KVRist
227 posts since 9 Mar, 2017

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:28 am

keyman_sam wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:28 pm
Bummer about the velocity curve - I can't keep adjusting every single one. The patches are way too quiet without adjusting the velocity curve. Don't know how others are dealing with that.
I can only assume this is related to your specific keyboard and playing. Many people with light synth-action keyboards (myself included) tend to find Unify factory patches too loud. You may need to set your global velocity response to something extreme, like this:
2021-07-20_11-19-57.png
.

Thanks for clarifying your live setup. My earlier suggestion to set up a macro knob to control the master/mixLevel parameter will allow you to do this, and by setting the response curve right, you can make it an all-or-nothing effect, e.g.
2021-07-20_11-24-32.png
.

This level of detail is better addressed on our Forum, but I can continue to answer here if you wish.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:04 pm

I appreciate the help, I'll try that, thanks.

Just yesterday I had a blast of sound without warning. I quit Logic, Unify and Live. Once I quit the Unify standalone app it stopped. Is there anything in there that causes extreme feedback (like a demo limitation expiring)?? It completely put me off and I had to quit making music for that day, being as disturbed by that experience as I was.Image

Managed to capture a snapshot of Totalmix blasting the noise (thought it was a sound card bug at first).
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User avatar
KVRist
227 posts since 9 Mar, 2017

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:39 am

@keyman_sam
There's nothing in Unify or the Unify Demo that would cause a blast of noise like that. I'm sorry to hear you that you had such a dreadful experience. It's certainly not supposed to happen, and I haven't had any similar reports.

If the noise came from Unify, then I'd need to know what Unify was doing just prior to that, i.e., which plug-ins were you running etc. You are using the Unify stand-alone in an unusual setup, together with other audio apps, and I haven't tested that extensively. Which audio driver do you use (i.e., what appears in the Audio/MIDI Setup window)?

User avatar
KVRAF
4525 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:01 am

That noise blast is usually a result of macPOS Core Audio and/or Logic. When I was using Logic I'd get that occassionally on various plugins. I'd mention it to the developer who'd be unable to solve it. Evenutally I learned it was a macPOS issue. Since I've switched to Reaper and so far 1.5 years later I've never encountered that blast. So I think it's more a Logic issue. It's been that way for years. One of the many things you have to put up with, with Logic unfortunately.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:45 pm

plexuss wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:01 am
That noise blast is usually a result of macPOS Core Audio and/or Logic. When I was using Logic I'd get that occassionally on various plugins. I'd mention it to the developer who'd be unable to solve it. Evenutally I learned it was a macPOS issue. Since I've switched to Reaper and so far 1.5 years later I've never encountered that blast. So I think it's more a Logic issue. It's been that way for years. One of the many things you have to put up with, with Logic unfortunately.
Are we talking about the same noise blast? This one was a constant one, something I've never heard before. I had to quit all apps for it to go away.

Now whenever I put on my cans I have PTSD. :x

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KVRian
949 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:20 pm

Does anyone know if Unify does oversampling, ala Metaplugin? I've not found any info on that. It's the one thing that Unify seems to be missing. It's very handy when using saturation plugins that don't do oversampling of their own. You can leave your project at 48Khz, and set Metaplugin to 4X, for example, and all plugins will run at 192Khz, which is more than enough to avoid aliasing.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:38 pm

Ok, Unify seems to be sucking CPU in Logic.

With a single Unify track playing NI's Jazz guitar it's taking up 20-25% CPU. Same patch in Kontakt is taking less than 10%.

Logic's CPU meter leaves a lot of room for guessing so I'm eyeballing here, but the difference is pretty easy to notice. This is on an Intel Mac mini i7 running Mojave. Again, my Mac eats whatever plugins are thrown at it before Unify came alone. Just a single Unify track in my project seems to bring it to its knees.

User avatar
KVRist
227 posts since 9 Mar, 2017

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:57 am

teilo wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:20 pm
Does anyone know if Unify does oversampling, ala Metaplugin?
No, Unify does not presently do oversampling.

User avatar
KVRist
227 posts since 9 Mar, 2017

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:06 am

keyman_sam wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:38 pm
Ok, Unify seems to be sucking CPU in Logic.

With a single Unify track playing NI's Jazz guitar it's taking up 20-25% CPU. Same patch in Kontakt is taking less than 10%.

Logic's CPU meter leaves a lot of room for guessing so I'm eyeballing here, but the difference is pretty easy to notice. This is on an Intel Mac mini i7 running Mojave. Again, my Mac eats whatever plugins are thrown at it before Unify came alone. Just a single Unify track in my project seems to bring it to its knees.
Unify has some overhead, which will be most noticeable when it is lightly loaded. There is no advantage in using Unify to wrap just one plug-in in a DAW.

Logic's CPU meters can be very confusing; I don't actually know how they work. For better CPU metering, I suggest getting to know Unify's own CPU meters: https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/dok ... cpu-meters.

What buffer size are you using for your Logic project? Unify runs much less efficiently with sizes below 128; we recommend 256.

Unify may also run less efficiently if your project uses a lot of automation, because Logic switches to very short buffer sizes automatically in this case.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:42 pm

I just updated to v1.6.1 and it looks like the "demo content needs to be deleted" upon launch issue is fixed.

Now I have created 13 user patches prior to the update, but Unify refuses to load one of them. It recognizes only 12 in its database. Even when I try to double click on it or drag and drop to Unify it refuses to load. How do I load it?

I do hope the CPU issue is fixed, but overall the GUI seems snappier (knock on wood).

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:00 pm

Another bug. I cleaned up my plug-in folder by removing all AUs and keeping only VSTs (as apparently unify works better with VSTs).

Now none of my custom made patches (which were using AUs) will load. :cry:

User avatar
KVRAF
6043 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:43 pm

keyman_sam wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:00 pm
Another bug. I cleaned up my plug-in folder by removing all AUs and keeping only VSTs (as apparently unify works better with VSTs).

Now none of my custom made patches (which were using AUs) will load. :cry:
Expected behavior.
You need to recreate them with VSTs. If you saved your presets in the AU plugin, you should be able to load them into the VST version…

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4161 posts since 8 Mar, 2005

Post Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:35 am

Can’t unify do the conversion for me? Are the plug-in IDs different that the AU and VST of the same plug-in appear as unrelated?

And how much better do the VSTs run than AUs? Is there a quantifiable metric?

The only reason I’m running VSTs is to allow for independence pro

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