Looking for the closest thing to Softube Weiss DS1. SOLVED!

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRian
827 posts since 23 May, 2016

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:54 pm

what about DMG Essence, afaik it is a directly competing product (compression, expanding, de-essing)

KVRAF
3975 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:02 pm

I understand your definition of "SOLVED" (sticking with DS1) but until we really find a suitable alternative, the question isn't answered for the rest of us :lol:

What is the closest thing to DS1? That doesn't cost a week's wages...

KVRAF

Topic Starter

2636 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:08 pm

MogwaiBoy wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:02 pm
I understand your definition of "SOLVED" (sticking with DS1) but until we really find a suitable alternative, the question isn't answered for the rest of us :lol:

What is the closest thing to DS1? That doesn't cost a week's wages...
lol! Fair enough.But since I'm the only one who asked, I figure you don't really want to know. You only think you do. :hihi:

KVRian
1214 posts since 26 Feb, 2016

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:52 am

dblock wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:36 am
Thanks for the responses guys. After being able to ditch a bunch of plugins that were eating up resources I was able to keep DS1 on my master bus with Unisum as my main backup. To my ears DS1 is just a whole different ballgame though Unisum is fantastic.
Good choice!

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KVRAF
3669 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA

Post Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:06 pm

Had Softube ever done a decent sale on it?
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others

KVRAF
4549 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:34 pm

Yeah last year it was 40% off i think.

I don’t use it as much anymore because it doesn’t work in native logic (gui goes to shit) so i keep to native plugs and those that work well when logic is native instead
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Banned
465 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:03 am

There is nothing special about the Softube Weiss DS1. It's a plugin recreation of digital hardware. So, in essence: the special thing about the hardware was that it was fully digital (a novum at the time), which is of course nothing special anymore in an age where digital processors prevail.

Basically any well-coded digital compressor plugin, that doesn't attempt to emulate analog characteristics, with a similar set of parameters can achieve the same sound, including free ones. Kotelnikov can get you there (the GE version is even superior in features and quality, while the free version is roughly in the same league as the Softube Weiss).

KVRAF
4549 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:39 am

Its not a recreation tho, it’s a code PORT.

And you haven’t really played with weiss enough then. Free version doesn’t come close.

GE comes close but lacks a few key elements to nail it, but its a great compressor on its own right
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KVRian
728 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 am

Yeah Unisum and kotelnikov are the ones. Maybe instead of buying more plugins you forget about save up for a really nice CPU. It was greater investment to me then any plugins I've purchased.

Banned
465 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:39 am

Ploki wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:39 am
Its not a recreation tho, it’s a code PORT.

And you haven’t really played with weiss enough then. Free version doesn’t come close.

GE comes close but lacks a few key elements to nail it, but its a great compressor on its own right
I think you don't understand what "porting" a code actually means here. It essentially means that you take the code from a software controlled hardware device and put it into a software plugin. Nothing of value is added in the process, no improvements. It's software code -> software code. They most likely just had to change some of the code semantics and syntax, since the original code was written in either a more low level or an obsolete programming language not usable for plugin development.

Again, in case you have not fully grasped it: They are not in fact modelling hardware (analog circuits) here, they are re-utilizing the code of an early generation compression software, that was cramped into a hardware looking physical box.

The original Weiss is outdated, early generation digital DSP. Sure, it was a new approach at the time compared to analog-circuit based compressors, but there is no superiority in an early generation software based compression algorithm over recent, well-coded software compressors.

Sure, if you are susceptible to marketing and unable to apply common sense, go and invest hundreds of bucks into a "code port" of outdated DSP. Meanwhile I will stick to my freebie FirComp and Kotelnikov.

KVRAF
4549 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:52 am

Kazi7 wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:39 am
I think you don't understand what "porting" a code actually means here. It essentially means that you take the code from a software controlled hardware device and put it into a software plugin. Nothing of value is added in the process, no improvements. It's software code -> software code. They most likely just had to change some of the code semantics and syntax, since the original code was written in either a more low level or an obsolete programming language not usable for plugin development.

Again, in case you have not fully grasped it: They are not in fact modelling hardware (analog circuits) here, they are re-utilizing the code of an early generation compression software, that was cramped into a hardware looking physical box.
What? Where did I say anything to the opposite.
I don't think you understand what recreation means.
In the context of plugins even more, recreation is often associated with recreating an original, which is not the same as making a carbon copy of it.
DS1 MK3 would be "recreated" if the original code wasn't available and they'd need to recreate it from bits and pieces and reverse engineering.
Kazi7 wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:39 am
The original Weiss is outdated, early generation digital DSP. Sure, it was a new approach at the time compared to analog-circuit based compressors, but there is no superiority in an early generation software based compression algorithm over recent, well-coded software compressors.

Sure, if you are susceptible to marketing and unable to apply common sense, go and invest hundreds of bucks into a "code port" of outdated DSP. Meanwhile I will stick to my freebie FirComp and Kotelnikov.
Don't be so obtuse.
It's like saying LA2A and FET are outdated piece of shit old tech.
Yes sure they are, but they're have a specific topolgy and consequently a specific sound.
DS1-mk3 is not different. It might be old DSP or whatever, but it has a specific sound and Kotelnikov does not sound like DS1-mk3.

Also joke's on you - i have a NFR license so i didn't spend a f**king dime on it, nor on Kotelnikov or FirComp.
And i don't like FirComp anyway, i tried it and tried it and i wont even bother with the free one because I don't care for it.
Which brings us full circle to: compressor topology is not a matter of period, but a matter of taste.

Also to clarify: i'm not even arguing in support of price tag at all or whether it's worth it or not, i'm simply saying it has its own sound and place in history and claiming otherwise is absolutely silly.
What that is worth to someone is their own subjective opinion.
I don't think Weiss DS1mk3 is worth 500€ considering the alternatives, but i can say the same for 90% of plugins on the market anyway.
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Banned
465 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:34 am

Ploki wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:52 am

It's like saying LA2A and FET are outdated piece of shit old tech.
Yes sure they are, but they're have a specific topolgy and consequently a specific sound.
DS1-mk3 is not different. It might be old DSP or whatever, but it has a specific sound and Kotelnikov does not sound like DS1-mk3.
Which once again shows that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in this case. The exact difference between analog hardware devices like the LA2A and a software algorithm housed in a hardware box like the Weiss DS (or it's "code port" plugin version): the Weiss DS doesn't have it's own sound (unless you consider digitally clean a sound character.)

Analog devices have sound due to the way the signal is affected by the physical components when passing through the circuitry. This is exactly what purely digital processors (and I'm not talking about processors that attempt to digitally recreate analog behaviour) like the Weiss and it's plugin port try to avoid. Hence your comparison proves your lack of understanding, since it makes no sense.

There is no "topology" in strictly digital compression, topology implies analog circuitry and the interaction between it's parts, which creates the characteristic sound and typical behaviour of eg.the Vari Mu class of compressors or FET compressors.

No matter what delusions you want to believe in, the Weiss is just first generation DSP, not bad when it originally came out, due to it's high digital precision (running at higher sample rates and bit rates, which is standard in 2021 in plugins, but was considered sophisticated when it came out). In the evolution of digital music tools the Weiss can be placed at the same stage with Synthmaker and Synthedit.

KVRist
54 posts since 22 May, 2019

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:53 am

I don't own the Weiss compressor so I can't compare, but maybe you can try the TDR Molot / MolotK compressor? It's quite versatile, though maybe more colored and characterful than the Weiss.

KVRAF
4549 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:24 am

Kazi7 wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:34 am
Which once again shows that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in this case. The exact difference between analog hardware devices like the LA2A and a software algorithm housed in a hardware box like the Weiss DS (or it's "code port" plugin version): the Weiss DS doesn't have it's own sound (unless you consider digitally clean a sound character.)

Analog devices have sound due to the way the signal is affected by the physical components when passing through the circuitry. This is exactly what purely digital processors (and I'm not talking about processors that attempt to digitally recreate analog behaviour) like the Weiss and it's plugin port try to avoid. Hence your comparison proves your lack of understanding, since it makes no sense.

There is no "topology" in strictly digital compression, topology implies analog circuitry and the interaction between it's parts, which creates the characteristic sound and typical behaviour of eg.the Vari Mu class of compressors or FET compressors.

No matter what delusions you want to believe in, the Weiss is just first generation DSP, not bad when it originally came out, due to it's high digital precision (running at higher sample rates and bit rates, which is standard in 2021 in plugins, but was considered sophisticated when it came out). In the evolution of digital music tools the Weiss can be placed at the same stage with Synthmaker and Synthedit.
Hey - null out Weiss with a Fircomp then.
Or null out Kotelnikov with Fircomp!

Also look up what “topology” means and complain to developers that use topology for plugins, not to me.

Why does TDR have 2 compressors?
Why does fabfilter have 8 modes?

and. So. Forth.

Weiss DS1 is iconic for lates 90s early 00s records, and its imperfections add to the sound as much as JP8000s aliasing adds to the sound of supersaw.
(In a different way). Does it matter that its old code? No, people want that sizzle of aliasing in a supersaw.

There’s still shape of the release and attack curves, timing constants, available parameters and so forth.

I tried making kotelnikov sound like DS1 but i cant because there’s no lookahead and ratio stops at 7.

I tried making Unisum sound like DS1 but i can’t.

I tried making Pro-C2 sound like DS1 but i can’t.
(Swap out compressor names)

It’s a digital compressor with a unique response curve and specific sound. How do you mean it doesnt have a sound? Release response curve absolutely affects sound - try it with a knob on Unisum or similar compressor.

Edit:
Also bit rates? What?

Edit2:
Also i wasn’t comparing hardware to plugins - you said the weiss is old tech, therefore shit.
I said that that’s like saying a vintage la2a is old tech and shit, because new hardware compressors are new and therefore better
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Last edited by Ploki on Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
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KVRAF
4549 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:25 am

sguyader wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:53 am
I don't own the Weiss compressor so I can't compare, but maybe you can try the TDR Molot / MolotK compressor? It's quite versatile, though maybe more colored and characterful than the Weiss.
I have both and not remotely similar.
Love molot tho
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