KVR Audio

Karl the Hermit · Post by **Karl the Hermit** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:48 am

Can anyone tell me what kind of issues I can expect from buying a used, midi keyboard from a "reputable" dealer like Guitar Center? I've been looking at getting a Novation Impulse 25-key controller but don't want to pay $200+ for a new one. Used ones are running around $90, but I wonder what I'll be missing if I get a used one.

Almost all of them come with "no software," so I wouldn't expect to get yet another copy of Ableton's Live Lite, or some crappy softsynth that wouldn't use anyway. I just don't want to lose other features like arps and easy midi-mapping. The guy in pro-audio tried to tell me I'd lose all of those functions with a used board, but I think he's full of shit. If a set of keys says a feature is "on board" and there's a button for it, it's in the hardware, and not the software, right?

Also, the only software I would want from a Novation Impulse is the Automap 4 software available on the Novation site. So what if I plug into my 'puter, go to their site, and can't get the Automap 4 software because my board is already registered?

Any other issues I can expect buying used instead of new?

hoxclab · Post by **hoxclab** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:01 am

Whatever issues that made the original purchaser sell it to Guitar Center? I'd just grab an M-Audio KeyStation and call it a day.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:17 am

Yeah, but those issues could be anything from it being the wrong size or not liking the layout once he/she started using it, through to the colour clashing with the drapes in their studio. It may have been a compatibility issue, which would be the same if it was new or used.

To find out about the software, the easiest thing to do is see what you can download now, before you buy. If you can't download it now, you probably won't be able to once you have the controller, either, unless the previous owner was thoughtful enough to de-register it when he traded it in. I'd just go for it, I buy used gear all the time.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:32 am

Years ago I won a Roland A33 on an ebay auction and it was in the city I lived in at the time. I also worked nearby for a chain of music stores in the northeast U S known at the time for it's used inventory. An hour after winning it I had it in my living room, I asked the guy on the phone where he got it and he said "Daddy's in Nashua" (that's where I worked), I sold it to him, should have seen his face

...not only that but I either bought it or took it in on a trade for the store because it had the sticker I put on it with my employee number.

I sold it as a salesman to the guy for 400usd, if I took on trade I might have gone as high as 225, if I bought it for the store no more than 200, I got commission for everything I sold of course (after my draw) and a thing called two-man commission on anything I took in (no draw, nice little bonus, small piece collected quarterly)...I paid 200 for when I got it in the auction, money earned...I wonder what I really paid for it

I still have it, it's kinda old and tired...like me

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:20 am

I imagine the main trade-in reason for a 25-key keyboard is its size. It sounds so promising when shopping: hardly any desk space, carry it on the bus... You soon find out that even if your melodies only span two octaves, you need the Bb below lowest C so either transpose and learn to use the black keys as well, or you get a 3-octaves one. Then find out 4 or 5 octaves doesn't cut it and soon enough you have an 88-keys master keyboard

Some weeks ago I spilled coffee over my USB keyboard. After a rinse and drying it the G key and Ctrl-F combination didn't work anymore. Perhaps I could open it up and give it a better clean. But is that worth it? No, I called it a total loss.
Cheap as I am, I went to a second-hand goods store first, also to support their good cause. Sure they had some, very affordable too! But the excessive dirt on them put me off. No way I'm going to scrub clean a used keyboard to save a tenner.

For midi keyboards the price difference is somewhat bigger, but you asked what kind of issues to expect. And this is a major one.

melomood · Post by **melomood** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:52 am

I had a 25 key. Same reason for not being satisfied so I got a bigger one off some dude round the way thru Craigslist. Cost 20 bucks, works fine.Just looks a bit older than the Nektar I picked up for the desktop setup & came with padshop

YnJ · Post by **YnJ** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:53 am

Automap is free I think, anyway, you can just try to download it for yourself first. I used to have the Novation Impulse 49, you could still play it, all the midi functions had gone at some point though and it sometimes would turn stuff on on it's own, one of my soft synths it insisted on turning the arpeggiator on all the time. I replaced it with a new Novation Impulse 61, which worked for a day or so until the hardware crashed or something. I now have two Nektar keyboards, and I'm not going back to Novation

Karl the Hermit · Post by **Karl the Hermit** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:13 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:17 am Yeah, but those issues could be anything from it being the wrong size or not liking the layout once he/she started using it, through to the colour clashing with the drapes in their studio. It may have been a compatibility issue, which would be the same if it was new or used.

To find out about the software, the easiest thing to do is see what you can download now, before you buy. If you can't download it now, you probably won't be able to once you have the controller, either, unless the previous owner was thoughtful enough to de-register it when he traded it in. I'd just go for it, I buy used gear all the time.

Black matches everything, good sir!

I think most folks either lose interest or keep interest and buy better gear. I don't know, but the 45-day warranty makes it safer to buy used from a large company. I will make see about what software I can download without owning the unit first and go from there.

I'm still curious, though, about how can you tell if a feature is part of the board itself and not just "in the software." And I'd also like to figure out how to deregister my Akai... spent 30 minutes trying last weekend and had no success.

Karl the Hermit · Post by **Karl the Hermit** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:25 pm

YnJ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:53 am Automap is free I think, anyway, you can just try to download it for yourself first. I used to have the Novation Impulse 49, you could still play it, all the midi functions had gone at some point though and it sometimes would turn stuff on on it's own, one of my soft synths it insisted on turning the arpeggiator on all the time. I replaced it with a new Novation Impulse 61, which worked for a day or so until the hardware crashed or something. I now have two Nektar keyboards, and I'm not going back to Novation

I hate to admit this, but I'm trading down from an Akai MPK249 because it's way too complex for me. I never could get any of the midi controls linked up to any of the DAW's I tried because I'm a bit of a Midiot. I understand how midi works but getting things linked between the hardware and software is not my thing. Automap 4 (4.3 now) looks like my kind of software.

Karl the Hermit · Post by **Karl the Hermit** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:27 pm

hoxclab wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:01 am Whatever issues that made the original purchaser sell it to Guitar Center? I'd just grab an M-Audio KeyStation and call it a day.

I don't know how tough the M-Audio midi keys are, but I have an old, M-Audio soundcard with breakout box from 2002 and it still works just fine, other than being outdated.

ShawnG · Post by **ShawnG** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:42 pm

Anecdotally for my own part, I am zero for two on used equipment purchases from guitar center. I bought an sl61 mk2 from them a few years ago where the aftertouch never worked (it was otherwise ok and cheap, so I kept it). And I bought a launchpad pro that immediately caused my pc to BSOD when I plugged it in. And it humorously caused the mac at guitar center to kernel panic when they didn’t believe me and insisted on testing it there. I’m sure there are folks that bought used stuff that worked out fine, but not me.

Did piss me off after that when they wouldn’t let me trade in an amp that had one slightly scratchy pot…

Karl the Hermit · Post by **Karl the Hermit** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:47 pm

ShawnG wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:42 pm Anecdotally for my own part, I am zero for two on used equipment purchases from guitar center. I bought an sl61 mk2 from them a few years ago where the aftertouch never worked (it was otherwise ok and cheap, so I kept it). And I bought a launchpad pro that immediately caused my pc to BSOD when I plugged it in. And it humorously caused the mac at guitar center to kernel panic when they didn’t believe me and insisted on testing it there. I’m sure there are folks that bought used stuff that worked out fine, but not me.

Did piss me off after that when they wouldn’t let me trade in an amp that had one slightly scratchy pot…

They have a return policy on the used equipment, but the number of days are not all the same. The sales guy said midi keys have 45 days, so I'd have a month and a half to put it through it's paces. They also have extended 1-year and 3-year warranties, but I didn't check prices. Normally, I'm totally against extended warranties, but for used gear, I might forgo that rule.

riyakataria · Post by **riyakataria** » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:43 pm

I’ve bought all but one of my MIDI keyboards used, and none of them have had issues. Usually it’s just people outgrowing the keyboards, especially if it’s an entry level keyboard. I sold my Alesis V49 after upgrading to a Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2. There was nothing wrong with the Alesis but I was just able to get an upgrade.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:11 am

Yeah and sometimes it's just a matter of it taking time you realise you could have bought something that suited you better. At the moment I am in the process of trying to decide what to use on stage. I've just spent a week using just my Roli, after a few days of using just my Uno Pro as a controller, but this morning I swapped the Roli out for my KeyStep, which I will try for the next few days. The last thing I'll try after that is my Ultranova, which has been at my bandmate's place for the last 5 years or more. (It's blue I don't like blue. But I do like the sound.) Unlike the Uno Pro, Ultranova has a Local Control mode so it's easy to use as a controller.

Actually, Ultranova is a great example - I bought it on eBay about 9 years ago. I think the seller was a pawn shop and I watched the listing for a few weeks and when it didn't sell for whatever he was asking, I offered him $400 and he took it. It's never missed a beat and 9 years is far and away the longest I have ever kept any hardware synth I've owned. Next in line would be my Trinity and CS1x, both of which I had for about 5 years. I actually had two CS1xs - I sold the first one to get a CS2x but decided I liked the CS1x better so I sold the CS2x and bought another (used) CS1x.

Karl the Hermit · Post by **Karl the Hermit** » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:31 pm

I know many of you seem to be okay with buying used, but what about used midi keys that are no longer made?

I found a used, NI S25 keyboard with sliders that I like, but they don't even make them anymore. I think the A series is the only series with a 25 key board these days. Do you think firmware updates would be an issue?

The Wisdom of Buying a Used Midi Keyboard