Soundtoys are they now overated? My thinking is...

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRian
901 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:48 am

SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:55 am
_leras wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:40 am
v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:42 am
Listen to any Tchad Blake record like the Black Keys or Arctic Monkeys - they have the Soundtoys sound all over them.
Do you have an example song or sound you are referring to here?

Would love to take a listen and see if I agree. I can't particularly think of anything that makes me go.. Ah - they must have used soundtoys...
I was just working on a rock record with a well known producer and for what it’s worth, he’s also a big fan of the soundtoys stuff and used filterfreak quite a lot when we were working. Devil loc was used a lot too.

I personally think Soundtoys may be a bit underrated because of the age of the plugins. The GUI may be “outdated” but each and every plugin is A+ in my book (the sound).
Nice, hope the record turnd out well.

I totally know they are being used. I just wanted to know if there were examples of the 'soundtoys sound' from those records that v1o was suggesting, and what he thinks the characteristics are.

I'm not sure I could specifically spot a mix that had sound toys 'all over it'.

User avatar
KVRist
272 posts since 2 Sep, 2012

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:30 am

_leras wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:48 am
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:55 am
_leras wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:40 am
v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:42 am
Listen to any Tchad Blake record like the Black Keys or Arctic Monkeys - they have the Soundtoys sound all over them.
Do you have an example song or sound you are referring to here?

Would love to take a listen and see if I agree. I can't particularly think of anything that makes me go.. Ah - they must have used soundtoys...
I was just working on a rock record with a well known producer and for what it’s worth, he’s also a big fan of the soundtoys stuff and used filterfreak quite a lot when we were working. Devil loc was used a lot too.

I personally think Soundtoys may be a bit underrated because of the age of the plugins. The GUI may be “outdated” but each and every plugin is A+ in my book (the sound).
Nice, hope the record turnd out well.

I totally know they are being used. I just wanted to know if there were examples of the 'soundtoys sound' from those records that v1o was suggesting, and what he thinks the characteristics are.

I'm not sure I could specifically spot a mix that had sound toys 'all over it'.
If you knew they were used then you’d ‘hear’ it! :D

v1o
KVRAF
2870 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:23 am

ricowave202 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:19 pm
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:55 am
_leras wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:40 am
v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:42 am
Listen to any Tchad Blake record like the Black Keys or Arctic Monkeys - they have the Soundtoys sound all over them.
Do you have an example song or sound you are referring to here?

Would love to take a listen and see if I agree. I can't particularly think of anything that makes me go.. Ah - they must have used soundtoys...
I was just working on a rock record with a well known producer and for what it’s worth, he’s also a big fan of the soundtoys stuff and used filterfreak quite a lot when we were working. Devil loc was used a lot too.

I personally think Soundtoys may be a bit underrated because of the age of the plugins. The GUI may be “outdated” but each and every plugin is A+ in my book (the sound).

I just wish they added a dedicated compressor and better eq options. As well as a more versatile reverb. Outside of that no complaints from me!

I’ve sold my bundle before and every time I regret it because trying to find replacements for crystalizer or recreate some of those weirder effects, is just a pain in the backside.
Eventide Crystals seems like a good replacement for Crystallizer.
The Soundtoys guys came from Eventide. That's why there's a lot of similarities with their plug-ins.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

v1o
KVRAF
2870 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:56 am

_leras wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:48 am
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:55 am
_leras wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:40 am
v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:42 am
Listen to any Tchad Blake record like the Black Keys or Arctic Monkeys - they have the Soundtoys sound all over them.
Do you have an example song or sound you are referring to here?

Would love to take a listen and see if I agree. I can't particularly think of anything that makes me go.. Ah - they must have used soundtoys...
I was just working on a rock record with a well known producer and for what it’s worth, he’s also a big fan of the soundtoys stuff and used filterfreak quite a lot when we were working. Devil loc was used a lot too.

I personally think Soundtoys may be a bit underrated because of the age of the plugins. The GUI may be “outdated” but each and every plugin is A+ in my book (the sound).
Nice, hope the record turnd out well.

I totally know they are being used. I just wanted to know if there were examples of the 'soundtoys sound' from those records that v1o was suggesting, and what he thinks the characteristics are.

I'm not sure I could specifically spot a mix that had sound toys 'all over it'.
If you read the Tchad Blake Q&A over at GS, he uses Soundtoys on most of his work and tends to be very aggressive with distortion. There's a lot more info there on specific use cases for certain songs over at the Q&A. But it's fair to say he's largely responsible for Decapitator and Deviloc getting widespread industry use. Whether you think that has any bearing on the overall character of a mix is a matter of opinion. Some people think all distortion plug-ins will lead you to much the same result. It's like debating guitar pedals, whether or not you think a specific pedal was responsible for a particular guitarists signature sound.

Listen to this song, mixed by Tchad Blake, it has Deviloc on drums giving a certain crunch to the sound.

https://youtu.be/CL8PVDsqwvQ
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

KVRist
55 posts since 19 Mar, 2015

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:39 am

Are SoundToys plugins overrated? No. They sound great and have become staples for many because of how good they are. Is SoundToys in danger of becoming seen as a stagnant developer? Yes. The audio plugin world moves quickly, plugin geeks love "shiny shiny" and newness is king. Even if it's not warranted in the slightest it is a danger.

The only company with a large rep I can think of that hasn't become viewed as irrelevant through a lack of major updates is Lennar Digital. But that's it.

Banned
102 posts since 23 Jul, 2021

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:48 am

humdingergravy wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:39 am
Are SoundToys plugins overrated? No. They sound great and have become staples for many because of how good they are. Is SoundToys in danger of becoming seen as a stagnant developer? Yes. The audio plugin world moves quickly, plugin geeks love "shiny shiny" and newness is king. Even if it's not warranted in the slightest it is a danger.

The only company with a large rep I can think of that hasn't become viewed as irrelevant through a lack of major updates is Lennar Digital. But that's it.
I agree and my thought would be that it's got to be tough with new sales.

KVRer
9 posts since 28 Jul, 2021

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:27 am

humdingergravy wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:39 am
Are SoundToys plugins overrated? No. They sound great and have become staples for many because of how good they are. Is SoundToys in danger of becoming seen as a stagnant developer? Yes. The audio plugin world moves quickly, plugin geeks love "shiny shiny" and newness is king. Even if it's not warranted in the slightest it is a danger.

The only company with a large rep I can think of that hasn't become viewed as irrelevant through a lack of major updates is Lennar Digital. But that's it.
i don't think soundtoys will become obsolete, if it sounds good, why would they have to change anything ? they only need to update it to keep it compatible with newer systems, nothing else.

User avatar
KVRAF
3052 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:05 am

I bought Crystalizer yesterday, and been messing about with it all day. These ST plugins will never ever get ignored here, they are my goto's for certain things.
Forward ever, Backward never

User avatar
KVRian
901 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:10 am

v1o wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:56 am
If you read the Tchad Blake Q&A over at GS, he uses Soundtoys on most of his work and tends to be very aggressive with distortion. There's a lot more info there on specific use cases for certain songs over at the Q&A. But it's fair to say he's largely responsible for Decapitator and Deviloc getting widespread industry use. Whether you think that has any bearing on the overall character of a mix is a matter of opinion. Some people think all distortion plug-ins will lead you to much the same result. It's like debating guitar pedals, whether or not you think a specific pedal was responsible for a particular guitarists signature sound.

Listen to this song, mixed by Tchad Blake, it has Deviloc on drums giving a certain crunch to the sound.
I think you're likely overstating this. Sound toys were popular before Decapitator came out and it was universally well received when it did.

I had hoped you had an example from Black Keys or Artic Monkeys that you said had sound toys all over them.

Not to say he's not a great mixer. Black Keys El Camino sounds fantastic, and has a lovely 'grunge' to it. Artic Monkeys AM is also a nicely mixed album though he made a point of saying he didn't really do much that much to it as it been well recorded and already came with their sound. (watched his pensado interview)

And even then he says he mostly uses things like this in parallel mixed quite low, and even then... he says he really likes Sans Amp most for doing this type of thing.

v1o
KVRAF
2870 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:12 pm

_leras wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:10 am
I think you're likely overstating this. Sound toys were popular before Decapitator came out and it was universally well received when it did.
No one said Soundtoys were not popular before Decapitator. If you'd ask me I'd say Echoboy is their most popular plugin.Tchad Blake is known to use Decapitator, Deviloc and the Sansamp - watch any of his mixing seminars or videos on MWTM. Blake even inspired Soundtoys to develop Deviloc based on his then unusual technique of using the Shure Level loc.
I had hoped you had an example from Black Keys or Artic Monkeys that you said had sound toys all over them.
As a starting point listen to Brothers by the Black Keys. You can then read the Q&A over at GS if you want to know which plugins were used.
Not to say he's not a great mixer. Black Keys El Camino sounds fantastic, and has a lovely 'grunge' to it. Artic Monkeys AM is also a nicely mixed album though he made a point of saying he didn't really do much that much to it as it been well recorded and already came with their sound. (watched his pensado interview)

And even then he says he mostly uses things like this in parallel mixed quite low, and even then... he says he really likes Sans Amp most for doing this type of thing.
He typically uses the Sansamp mixed in parallel. How much is mixed in depends on the song, its not going to be the same for every record. Really there is nothing much to debate about his mixing style, there's plenty of material out there including videos of him mixing songs and live Q&As at music trade shows.

For a good quick primer on Tchad Blake mixing techniques watch this series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YSpmNTs3Fs
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

User avatar
KVRian
901 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:14 pm

sorry, was being overly pedantic. was just saying decapitor was well received and sound toys were already popular so wouldn't have thought one producer would lead to that much more adoption. and Brothers might have been just before decapitator?

thanks for the link on his mixing technique, I'll have a watch. his pensado interview was really interesting.

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