KVR Audio

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:57 am

thanks,i herad the ymake good bongs ya see

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:58 am

psyco-synth-head · Post by **psyco-synth-head** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:59 am

I think it's a great idea and I would have signed up for the Ohm Force buy if I wasn't on holiday at the time.

I do feel that some developers are trying to dominate the scene a bit too much so maybe there should be a limit on how many times a company is able to do a group buy in one year?

psy-man

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:14 am

So what about the junk mail side, the advertising?

I know that I've lost count of the times people being a fan of one product has meant threads completely change course because of the introduction of said product into the thread.

If someone is looking for a product in a thread and someone thinks a current Group Buy satisfies that requirement to a degree, do you think it's unethical to suggest it, enthuse about it - particularly if you are a participant of the same Group Buy?

On one hand - if you are in the Group Buy yourself it means you probably don't have the product yet and especially as you are personally profiting from more and more people entering the Group Buy it might seem like you're only suggesting it for your own financial benefit and for no other reason.

On the other hand - if you are excited about purchasing something you are probably going to want to spread that around naturally to others as well. We all think we've just purchased the best option and quite often we want others to know about it - especially if we're excited.

And on another hand - I know I used to recommend that people look closely at Massiva as a sequencer almost anytime the opportunity came up for quite a long period of time and I didn't even use/own that product. I thought that Massiva's feature per price was so impressive that I thought it was worthwhile for any who were looking to examine it specifically ahead of most other sequencers/hosts.

And - hey - how did I get 3 hands?!?!

Caleb

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:49 am

whyterabbyt wrote:Yeah, people selling their stuff cheaper than usual, sometimes more than 50% off. How greedy can you get?

Funny how nobody particularly thinks of brick-and-mortar stores as 'greedy' when they have limited-time sales, though.

WilliamK wrote:Normally, we will start a new GB every month, from the 1st day to the last day of the month. All with a 50 users limit for the 50% discounts.

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63188

Right 'limited-time sales' are fine !
But it turns out different these days....

Or: eSoundz Group Buy #3
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63019
or how can I get rid of old stocks, like in this case...

They were something specilal like the CA5000 and z3ta+ group buys, but like some do it now...
They kill a great idea.
Why ?
For what ?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:07 am

Midiworks quoth

Right 'limited-time sales' are fine !
But it turns out different these days....

Thats just dumb. Sales are only good if they're for a limited time? Why? Because if they're not you don't feel like you got a bargain anymore? Awwww.

or how can I get rid of old stocks, like in this case...

What's wrong with that? You'd rather they sold it at full price?

And btw, the Drum Capsules are not 'old stock', and there's previously unavailable sounds as part of this, so you're talking nonsense on all counts here.

They were something specilal like the CA5000 and z3ta+ group buys, but like some do it now...
They kill a great idea.

How? Is it only a 'great idea' when you're one of the 'lucky few' but now that everyone's got a shot it doesnt feel quite as 'special'?

Yeah, way to 'kill a great idea'. Sell more stuff cheaply.

Why ?
For what ?

To get a lot of sales in a small space of time, and attract some new customers who'll get a bargain. How evil. How greedy. It'll die soon, that great idea having been 'killed'.

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:42 pm

Midiworks wrote: Or: eSoundz Group Buy #3
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63019
or how can I get rid of old stocks, like in this case...

Midiworks - for a start can you explain why having a clear out sale of old stock is evil or making a good idea bad? I'm not sure I understand this as I would have thought it was a common practice that is often appreciated by customers.

But if you were going to quote an eSoundz example this wasn't the right one. I would have picked on the Sonic Synth 1 Group Buy instead.

The drum offer is based on material that is either very current or not even released yet in a way that's never been sold before and never will be again.

It does happen to have some content from earlier SR products - namely one of the most famous drum samplesets ever produced. But I don't see why that's sufficient to bundle it as you have.

I think the Sonic Synth 1 group buy was one of the first was it not? Was it still a good idea then when they were clearing old stock? Had it gone sour already?

I don't think there's any doubt that a group buy can be useful to move old product but I could probably bundle z3ta in that category quite easily which you do not. If I were being cynical I could have said that the z3ta group buy could have been René's last chance generating cash flow before being forced to design a totally new instrument to try to compete with one of the most popular soft synths of all time.

That's if I were being totally cynical.

On the other hand I could also argue that Sonic Synth 1 and z3ta both shared a meteoric popularity within K-v-R during their biggest days and if the overall ratings are telling in any way I would say that z3ta at 13 and Sonic Synth 1 at 18 after all this time show that they'd both be considered pretty special at a discount.

I have to admit the Wusikstation continual Group Buy is a little unusual. I believe William has a very strong plan for this as a platform which probably needs a large user base set up quickly.

But what I don't understand is what makes the eliminating of old stock or the continual Group Buy so bad? What is bad about it for you?

Caleb

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:45 pm

Caleb wrote:And - hey - how did I get 3 hands?!?!

Caleb

ooooh!i could use 3 keys at the same time then!a whole chord

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:48 pm

vurt wrote: ooooh!i could use 3 keys at the same time then!a whole chord

Just call me King of the Triads.

Caleb

Wopelka · Post by **Wopelka** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:52 pm

Midiworks wrote:I think it s going over the top, specialy here on KVR.

Some developers are overdoing it out of greed...

Sad they kill a great idea.

TheWall · Post by **TheWall** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:04 pm

Caleb wrote: Midiworks - for a start can you explain why having a clear out sale of old stock is evil or making a good idea bad? I'm not sure I understand this as I would have thought it was a common practice that is often appreciated by customers.

There's a reason why sometimes companies simply destroy the remainder of dated product. It's a quite common practice actually.

I don't think there's any doubt that a group buy can be useful to move old product but I could probably bundle z3ta in that category quite easily which you do not. If I were being cynical I could have said that the z3ta group buy could have been René's last chance generating cash flow before being forced to design a totally new instrument to try to compete with one of the most popular soft synths of all time.

That's if I were being totally cynical.

Nay, by the standard of quite some other devs, Rene could have simply beefed up the version number to 2.0 or 3.0 by now, or he could have sold the effect part as a new product and charge $100 for it.

Rene has been very careful with his group-buy decision. Yet it's not obvious to casual readers.

IMO, group-buy only works at the expense of those who actually pay at the full price. That's the reason why it'll most likely backfire sooner or later if not handled carefully.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:09 pm

Midiworks wrote:They kill a great idea.

Ideas don't die as easily as that. :-)

It's not a jungle out there, it's a marketplace. People will do what they think is best for them -- sellers and buyers both. If it leads to healthy, fair profits for sellers and satisfaction for buyers, how can that be bad?

Meffy

arguru · Post by **arguru** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:11 pm

If developer(s) thinks product is kinda crap, dont feel motivated about the project, improving it and limit support to fix the few bugs it could appear (if any...). Group Buys, Discounts, Whatever we want to call it = excellent idea. And if does some extra cash after : great.

Personally, as user, I would think it twice before getting a software tool wich is lot advertised in group buys or impressive discounts and expecting it will be updated and improved a lot. In the other side, if I think the software in its current state fullfit my needs, fine.

Wopelka · Post by **Wopelka** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:13 pm

TheWall wrote:IMO, group-buy only works at the expense of those who actually pay at the full price. That's the reason why it'll most likely backfire sooner or later if not handled carefully.

when you buy a product, you agree to pay a definite price for that product. it means you think the product is worth that price and are happy to get it for that cost.

therefore, you shouldn't be put off when later new customers benefit from a reduced price (or a free release as it has been the case for daHornet (i bought it) or, more recently, Tracktion).

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:15 pm

TheWall wrote: Nay, by the standard of quite some other devs, Rene could have simply beefed up the version number to 2.0 or 3.0 by now, or he could have sold the effect part as a new product and charge $100 for it.

OK - yeah.
That would also be an option.

I wasn't necessarily thinking this was what René was doing by the way. Just something I was throwing out there for the hell of it as an example.

Caleb

Group Buys - what's the verdict?