[video] SSD Data Integrity and Longevity

[whyterabbyt]

So, what's really interesting is; while your computer is using less power, notice that the efficiency is less than distinguishable until you're reffering to the platinum level.

wait. im confused now.

you will have much different levels of function withh your power supply

Is it less than distinguishable, or much different?

And if platinum level is only about 3% more efficient than gold, then surely titanium, which is only 2% better than platinum, is less distinguishable from platinum than that.

you just gots to explain, bruv, you're clearly the only one who can tell how much different those indistinguishable levels are.

[whyterabbyt]

And, if you've put two and two together, you'll realize that if you're overtaxing your processor

If Im overtaxing my processor adding two and two, should I get a new processor?

[whyterabbyt]

Dear kingbozorecrods

I thought my power supply was l33t and uber and cool and stuff, but I cant find the special UPS connectors on my anywhere can you help? I tried Santa, but he says he only does teh data centers and is teh noob.

[Guenon]

This is what you post right after literally saying "I will not discuss it further."

Lol, this is like a bunch of children chiming in saying that they know how a uninterruptable power supply works.
One guy says it's going to keep your non-enterprise ssd from going bad; most times but sometimes no.
And then the guy upstairs just saying whatever strikes his fancy as usual.

But what you're missing, the key component here that neither of you have grasped is that maybe with the right motherboard and power supply you could have better, more predictable power; but a ups is not going to matter unless your power supply is uber and l33t.

It's like talking about growing good onions and carrots without dirt or water. A good power supply has various connections which can be made to a ups. It's ridiculous that I even responded to this utter nonsense. You either don't have the money to buy a good power supply nor the time to watch youtube videos about the differences that a quality power supply can provide if you think a ups is going to solve your problems.

It does make power more regulated, it does sometimes shut your computer off within a set timeframe if you have that set. You can purchase one with a sinewave algorithm that could potentially be more stable and even easier on the wallet, but it won't save your ssd from alternating current.

Like you'd said, the ups has nothing to do with that; and this is why I explain - It is only a good power supply that can ensure such a thing, not so much a ups. It's this point that eluded you; and instead you flame on over some meaningless debacle lol.
Get a good power supply and move on, lol. If either of you knew one bit about this tech you instantly would have mentioned the vital power supply. Noobs, lol.

The other main point made is that PLP was available on many ssd's. That's not true sadly, there's a few generic ones; but it's rare.

Here's a very short list of ssd's with power loss protection (i):
https://www.truenas.com/community/threa ... 998/page-2

When looking around, it becomes very clear that PLP is not something that you would normally find in any non-enterprise ssd. If you were to find the feature, it would be likely a brand or stick that's not as fast in most cases than the most popular.

In the newer samsungs it's not available. But apparently in the 860 it may have been. Here is an article about the most popular m.2 ssd, the 970 evo:

Excerpt from: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB NVMe SSD Review By Will Taillac
The back is entirely barren except for the sticker. By excluding any back-side components on this drive, it is generally easier to cool since it does not require a cooling solution to be placed between the SSD and motherboard or M.2 card PCB. As these modules are not intended for servers, there is no power loss protection (PLP.) You can read a bit more about why PLP is important in some server workloads in our piece What is the ZFS ZIL SLOG and what makes a good one. That looks at a specific case but has a few diagrams and an explanation around what goes on with these drives when they do and do not have PLP.

reference: https://www.servethehome.com/samsung-97 ... gb-review/

And here's some information from kingston about power loss prevention:
https://www.kingston.com/en/solutions/s ... protection

But, when you get your bearings at the site, you begin to realize; that's it's directed to those with servers, and not to the general user.

So, good power supply, good; solid ssd with a good track record, a good ups, a motherboard furthermore with the right voltage consumption and power levels that are adequate for your processor. For instance, in the case of overclocking it may be that between what is being utilized for your gpu, ram and cpu that you're over the threshold of what your motherboard is designed to provide from the power supply to its connections. In such an event; it becomes quite clear that if your m.2 terminal does not have plp onboard than perhaps this pcie card is your best choice.

It would be nice if there were pcie 4.0 though, even pcie 2.0 users would notice the rapidity. Furthermore; what might be even nicer is for one with a rechargable (non-lithium let's hope Dear God) battery that keeps its reserves refreshed automatically with led status.

That would certainly make getting an enterprise ssd a moot point for the average consumer I'd think.

Here's good general info about power supplies so you can learn the ins and outs:


In the video, PC Builder explains that depending on power draw and consumption; you will have much different levels of function withh your power supply as explained in this screenshot:

ssd-efficiency.jpg
Zoom In

So, what's really interesting is; while your computer is using less power, notice that the efficiency is less than distinguishable until you're reffering to the platinum level. While expensive, this will mean like in the case of a car engine, or a motorcycle that your not going to be a gas guzzler while you throttle.

And, if you've put two and two together, you'll realize that if you're overtaxing your processor then at some point it might be a time when your motherboard's benchmarked amp threshold will be tested. I remember I had a computer that would shut down during games in the video scenes and not in the gameplay. What does that say, lol.

Good luck, have fun; do your research please if you wish to chime in and sound smart because you're hopefully trying to contribute to the community, you're helping musicians and artists and programmers safeguard their music, programming, data and storage by giving them the straight goods. But not necessarily, if you're quickly jotting down what you see "could be" "potentially" possible "plausibly" maybe? (especially Like in the case of plp's). And obviously that notion is shot down hard.

Seriously, imagine if you had said, "I will discuss it further."

In any case, considering what I wrote in my previous post, and what is the actual motivation of having UPS protection, and how it was initially introduced in this thread... this is really an extreme reaction, and I feel like it's somewhat detached from reality. I mean it, and that's not good.

It's either a huge misunderstanding, all the while, on your part, still, or there's something more unfortunate at play. What ever is causing the disconnect in this very thread, it also seems like you are in a state where you know a lot of concepts and details on a given subject, but you are misunderstanding/misinterpreting quite a bit of it, and as a result weird suff ensues, that only on the surface level seems like you are talking about the actual subject at hand.

If someone is trying to contribute to the community, helping musicians and artists, the main thing to point out considering actual UPS use in the context of this forum is, don't take advice on that from kingozrecords, just to be sure

[whyterabbyt]

If someone is trying to contribute to the community, helping musicians and artists, the main thing to point out considering actual UPS use in the context of this forum is, don't take advice on that from kingozrecords, just to be sure

[midi_transmission]

I had to deal with servers in the past. I don't want to join this discussion or have read all posts, but an UPS does not cover all cases where a PLP of an SSD jumps in. It may be enough for 90% of the people out there, but it's not a replacement. Even hard resets after a crash can create a PL for an SSD sometimes. Whether a PLP has happened in the past is easy to check via SMART. Most good ssds are pretty robust against corruption of data at rest nowadays, but for database usage there is still a chance that you get corruption when a write command is just lost.

A good overview about the topic https://www.kingston.com/unitedstates/u ... protection

[Guenon]

I had to deal with servers in the past. I don't want to join this discussion or have read all posts, but an UPS does not cover all cases where a PLP of an SSD jumps in. It may be enough for 90% of the people out there, but it's not a replacement. Even hard resets after a crash can create a PL for an SSD sometimes. Whether a PLP has happened in the past is easy to check via SMART. Most good ssds are pretty robust against corruption of data at rest nowadays, but for database usage there is still a chance that you get corruption when a write command is just lost.

A good overview about the topic https://www.kingston.com/unitedstates/u ... protection

Thank you. Yep, kingoz linked the Kingston info page already. But indeed, I'm not surprised not wanting to read all the posts hehe. The point regarding UPS use has been, when it and what it's good for has been brought up, explicitly mentioning mains drops, repeatedly, kingoz has been conflating the issues and replying to something else entirely, really downplaying the benefits of adding UPS protection and going out of his way to do this, to the extent of claiming things that don't make sense in the context.

[kingozrecords]

I had to deal with servers in the past. I don't want to join this discussion or have read all posts, but an UPS does not cover all cases where a PLP of an SSD jumps in. It may be enough for 90% of the people out there, but it's not a replacement. Even hard resets after a crash can create a PL for an SSD sometimes. Whether a PLP has happened in the past is easy to check via SMART. Most good ssds are pretty robust against corruption of data at rest nowadays, but for database usage there is still a chance that you get corruption when a write command is just lost.

A good overview about the topic https://www.kingston.com/unitedstates/u ... protection

Thank you. Yep, kingoz linked the Kingston info page already. But indeed, I'm not surprised not wanting to read all the posts hehe. The point regarding UPS use has been, when it and what it's good for has been brought up, explicitly mentioning mains drops, repeatedly, kingoz has been conflating the issues and replying to something else entirely, really downplaying the benefits of adding UPS protection and going out of his way to do this, to the extent of claiming things that don't make sense in the context.

In the creation of this post, I'd never even mentioned a UPS. Because frankly I think it's redundant. It's the power supply that's important and not the ups as well as having a battery on the ssd.

All I see are agendas of speaking of ups's. I recommend apc (only). It's funny, because I didn't mention UPS and then suddenly it's said that I'm not understanding UPS. Well I'll make another video about ups soon. You'll be very surprised about what I know.

In reality, you're egging someone so that he'll dig up more useful info for you. But badgering Me to do so makes Me feel like a fact donkey that no-one appreciates lol.

I try to keep the direction positive so that's there's constructive learning and forward momentum. Readers gain nothing by exepensive UPS's except a few dollars off their hydro bill. And yes, I have an agenda; what I reply to is what will actually be of assistance to the reader. I don't post to win an argument, but to be of assistance. Edit: and why isn't google spelling check highlighting anymore? Bah.

[Guenon]

In the creation of this post, I'd never even mentioned a UPS. Because frankly I think it's redundant. It's the power supply that's important and not the ups as well as having a battery on the ssd.

Someone else did mention it, and that's when things went south. You thinking UPS use is redundant, noted.

All I see are agendas of speaking of ups's.

That's weird.

It's funny, because I didn't mention UPS and then suddenly it's said that I'm not understanding UPS. Well I'll make another video about ups soon. You'll be very surprised about what I know.

Okay

[Guenon]

Readers gain nothing by exepensive UPS's except a few dollars off their hydro bill. And yes, I have an agenda; what I reply to is what will actually be of assistance to the reader.

Telling people that they gain nothing by having an UPS is just very weird.

There are people from all around the globe here, with varying quality of mains power. If you'd like to keep some topic narrowed down to some specific thing and not include this at all, fine - but reacting in this manner when someone brings up something you didn't intend to... is exactly the opposite of "being of assistance to the reader."

[midi_transmission]

My apologies. I didn't see that the kingston link was posted before.

It was mentioned by some that you don't need PLP when you have an UPS. I just wanted to make aware that there is indeed a difference between UPS and PLP for ssds.

Otherwise I would prefer to stay out of this heated discussion. Be kind to each other.

[Guenon]

My apologies. I didn't see that the kingston link was posted before.

It was mentioned by some that you don't need PLP when you have an UPS. I just wanted to make aware that there is indeed a difference between UPS and PLP for ssds.

Otherwise I would prefer to stay out of this heated discussion. Be kind to each other.

Thanks , and yeah keeping it friendly is a good reminder, for me as well.

[kingozrecords]

Yeah, ups is important sure. But without a battery on the ssd, it won't matter. So the point is moot.
It's not going to affect power efficiency problems stemming from the power supply, the very same dislikes btw of Nikolas Tessla; who'd suggested at such rates, AC was too unpredictable and would damage hardware.
It's funny, because posters will often fallback on the idea of a platinum power supply costing a lot as a crutch. But what if you were to take that crutch away?

If the price of a platinum power supply were conceivably lower, then the ability to improve your power consumption at higher rates is up by 8-10% (watch this video for more info) is meaningful.
but what the above video link provided does not say, and what most videos do not discuss, is what power supply efficiency is at at 10% or 20% or 30% or 40%? To be honest that's the only time when a platinum power supply becomes prudent. If you were to look at it your use of a computer you'd likely notice that you're rarely ever going beyond 40. So why is it that all videos are geared towards these power hungry gamers. Only for the entertainment value, and let's fact it; audio engineers just aren't as exciting.

If you were to look at the efficiency at 10-20-30% in a bronze power supply, you'd realize that the efficiency was 60-70% (though they say "80+") or maybe a bit more. And basically if you look at it, that's really only the difference of a few volts versus full load. Why don't they share with us this valuable info?

And why make videos for the end user if you omit the fact that you're using double the amount of power while idling? That's a hefty amount of money on your power bill. Furthermore, if they want to sell platinum power supplies, why not share these stats also. Talk about poor marketing.

80% power efficiency maybe in some cases for an audio setup, but doubtful. I would think more than likely, you would be at 65-70-75% efficiency because of how little power you're using. Efficiency and regulated power goes a bit further for all hardware including ssd's. Here's a cool power supply at a good price that I'd recommend.

The Seasonic FOCUS PX-750, 750W 80+ Platinum is available for only 164 CAD, that's 131 USD. So, what's the reason to be worried?
https://www.newegg.ca/seasonic-focus-pl ... 6817151191

update: till monday the 650w model is only 119 cad!
https://www.newegg.ca/seasonic-focus-pl ... 6817151192

Here's some images:

Platinum.png

Zoom In
As you can see the power consumption stays at 90+

focus-px-gx-hybrid-button.jpg

Zoom In
Here you can see there is a button to turn off the fan while under 30%. dB while recording a problem?

s3fc.gif

Zoom In
In this plot, you see how the fan curve is affected by power consumption.

The thing is, most info we're getting off youtube is for gamers. We have very different needs as audio engineers. Youtube used to have many more search results also, which is sad. It's now more for a few laughs here and there.

[whyterabbyt]

It's funny, because posters will often fallback on the idea of a platinum power supply costing a lot as a crutch.

what posters? where?

can anyone else smell straw?

[Guenon]

Yeah, ups is important sure. But without a battery on the ssd, it won't matter. So the point is moot.

The purposes are different. The point is not moot. Honestly, maybe this is a communication thing.

It's not going to affect power efficiency problems stemming from the power supply, the very same dislikes btw of Nikolas Tessla; who'd suggested at such rates, AC was too unpredictable and would damage hardware.
It's funny, because posters will often fallback on the idea of a platinum power supply costing a lot as a crutch. But what if you were to take that crutch away?

If the price of a platinum power supply were conceivably lower, then the ability to improve your power consumption at higher rates is up by 8-10% (watch this video for more info) is meaningful.
but what the above video link provided does not say, and what most videos do not discuss, is what power supply efficiency is at at 10% or 20% or 30% or 40%? To be honest that's the only time when a platinum power supply becomes prudent. If you were to look at it your use of a computer you'd likely notice that you're rarely ever going beyond 40. So why is it that all videos are geared towards these power hungry gamers. Only for the entertainment value, and let's fact it; audio engineers just aren't as exciting.

If you were to look at the efficiency at 10-20-30% in a bronze power supply, you'd realize that the efficiency was 60-70% (though they say "80+") or maybe a bit more. And basically if you look at it, that's really only the difference of a few volts versus full load. Why don't they share with us this valuable info?

And why make videos for the end user if you omit the fact that you're using double the amount of power while idling? That's a hefty amount of money on your power bill. Furthermore, if they want to sell platinum power supplies, why not share these stats also. Talk about poor marketing.

80% power efficiency maybe in some cases for an audio setup, but doubtful. I would think more than likely, you would be at 65-70-75% efficiency because of how little power you're using. Efficiency and regulated power goes a bit further for all hardware including ssd's. Here's a cool power supply at a good price that I'd recommend.

The Seasonic FOCUS PX-750, 750W 80+ Platinum is available for only 164 CAD, that's 131 USD. So, what's the reason to be worried?
https://www.newegg.ca/seasonic-focus-pl ... 6817151191

Here's some images:
Platinum.png
Zoom In
As you can see the power consumption stays at 90+

focus-px-gx-hybrid-button.jpg
Zoom In
Here you can see there is a button to turn off the fan while under 30%. dB while recording a problem?

s3fc.gif
Zoom In
In this plot, you see how the fan curve is affected by power consumption.

The thing is, most info we're getting off youtube is for gamers. We have very different needs as audio engineers. Youtube used to have many more search results also, which is sad. It's now more for a few laughs here and there.

At which point does your "I will not discuss it further" come into effect?