Waves release CLA Nx , Chris Lord-Alge's studio via headphones

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRAF
5247 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:24 am

Is there a relevant difference to NX Ocean Way Nashville?

KVRian
1018 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 am

Capped at ~60hz, NS10 can't even render low-low end at all. NS10s were designed by Yamaha to be consumer-grade listening enjoyment bookshelf speakers.

The other set of speakers in this kit is an Ocean Way custom HR1, so on paper similar tech as the Ocean Way monitors, but the room matters plenty still.

In contrast, both of the Ocean Way plugin speakers are custom made, designed from the ground up by sound geeks with limitless pockets seeking to make perfect speakers for a perfect room. You'd be hard pressed to find a much better sounding room anywhere in the world.

In a way you could say the CLA kit covers a broader range. You have the fancy HR1 far-fields for proper studio grade sound, then you have the "classic standard" NS10, and then you have CLA's boombox setup for testing lower commercial grade sound.

The Ocean Way plugin is all highly-polished studio-grade sound.

KVRist
104 posts since 21 Jun, 2013

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:01 pm

jochicago wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 am
Capped at ~60hz, NS10 can't even render low-low end at all. NS10s were designed by Yamaha to be consumer-grade listening enjoyment bookshelf speakers.
First selection is NS10s + a sub.

KVRian
712 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:21 am

jamcat wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:52 pm
Copy & paste if you get a /prf.hn/ link tracking(?!) error. Shady shit, Waves.
What does this mean?

KVRian
1018 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:22 am

Synth Master Jedi wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:01 pm
jochicago wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 am
Capped at ~60hz, NS10 can't even render low-low end at all. NS10s were designed by Yamaha to be consumer-grade listening enjoyment bookshelf speakers.
First selection is NS10s + a sub.
That's good to know. But you still have the crossover issue. If the sub wasn't designed for the speakers, you are still in consumer grade listening territory. The range of overlap between the sub and the NS10s is going to be overcooked and phasey. ~60hz to ~120hz, a pretty critical zone for mixing, one of the hardest parts to get right and your monitoring tool is mucking it up before you even begin trying to mix it.

To be fair, I would assume CLA didn't just plop down a sub. If he invested in Ocean Way HR1s for the far fields, I would assume that however that sub for the NS10 was set up, it was done with care by people who know what they are doing. But it's still a tricky situation even in expert hands, because as we know in music production, no expert can make magic out of mediocre starting materials. There are some positive qualities in the NS10 setup, but clean/accurate lows is not one of them.

I'll also mention that CLA says he mixes mostly in the NS10s. Obviously he could be using the fancy far fields if the NS10s were messy, so it sounds like CLA likes the way the NS10s and sub are setup and he feels he gets what he needs out of them. I'm sure if he felt the rig was subpar he would have done something about it. The problem here is also the that NS10s he uses are his own CLA10 brand, so he might be stuck using that trying to promote them. Take this with a grain of salt.

Last thing I have to say on this- it's generally assumed that low-low end is not as important in rock as it is in other genres. CLA cut his skills in the 80s, making records for listening devices of that era. He may not have a problem with not being able to hear 60-120hz properly. His fingers just know where to go to bake things succesfully the way he's been doing for decades. Your mileage, skills and genre may be very different. That's why IMO, if you are not a talented expert with decades of experience, it's important to start with the best hearing setup you can arrange for yourself.

KVRist
104 posts since 21 Jun, 2013

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:44 am

jochicago wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:22 am
That's why IMO, if you are not a talented expert with decades of experience, it's important to start with the best hearing setup you can arrange for yourself.
I am a talented expert with decades of experience and that's precisely why I bought CLA NX.

I do most of my music using headphones these past years, and I have all of the NX products from Waves, including Ocean Way, Abbey Road etc.

I've only had the CLA NX for a few days, but so far, that is the room that I like the best out of all of the Waves NX products.

As for the NS10s + sub, that's pretty much been a standard set up in many major studios for many decades, which is another reason that I bought the CLA NX room. When I used to work in a lot of large facilities a long time ago, NS10s were the standard found everywhere. Sometimes the studios just had the NS10s as nearfields and sometimes they had a sub too.

As for CLA hearing the low end, he also has his mains to quickly switch to, if he wants to listen to the deeper low end.

I don't use any of the virtual headphone rooms when I am making music, but I do feel that they are valuable to have when I am mixing and I can quickly check and audition my mix in different room environments, which allows me to make sure that my mix is well balanced and not lose my perspective.

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KVRian
849 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:33 pm

briefcasemanx wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:21 am
jamcat wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:52 pm
Copy & paste if you get a /prf.hn/ link tracking(?!) error. Shady shit, Waves.
What does this mean?
If you click on a KVR link to Waves from Safari (either Mac OS or iOS), you get a 404 Not Found page at the URL http://prf.hn/invalidlink.html

Checking out what prf.hn is, I found this:
PARTNERSHIP TRACKING
CAPTURE EVERY CONVERSION ON ANY DEVICE

Get full attribution for all of the partnership revenue and conversions you drive. We offer a range of partnership tracking technologies ensures you capture all the data you need for a comprehensive understanding of your programs and their business impact.
So, I now think this is actually something KVR is doing to monetize forum clicks, and something about the Waves links doesn't play well with it on Safari, which ends up exposing the tracking server. :shrug:
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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KVRian
897 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:57 pm

Synth Master Jedi wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:44 am
I've only had the CLA NX for a few days, but so far, that is the room that I like the best out of all of the Waves NX products.

As for the NS10s + sub, that's pretty much been a standard set up in many major studios for many decades, which is another reason that I bought the CLA NX room. When I used to work in a lot of large facilities a long time ago, NS10s were the standard found everywhere. Sometimes the studios just had the NS10s as nearfields and sometimes they had a sub too.
I've had the chance to A/B this now with the Ocean Way rooms. Makes me think I should make time to do some more specific reference listening with some familiar finished tracks.

The NS10s plus sub seem to be missing some low mids - but - they do seem good for balancing/focusing on the mid range in a hifi/normal listening way. For my mainly electronic music they might not be the first choice. I could see the NS10s (and sometimes the boombox) being good to check things on though.

I thought the CLA mains seemed a bit woofy in the bass compared to OW. The Ocean Way mains seem much smoother across the frequency range to me, more polished. In OW it seems the mains are better than the nearfields, but in CLA it's maybe the other way round.

just wish I could mix and match all within a single plug in.

These really are great plug ins to use if mixing with headphones.

KVRAF
2128 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Post Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:58 am

LeVzi wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 am
I have to admit, this is an awesome plugin for reference, I did some mixdowns today and they sound way better than the original ones I did for the same tracks. I wasn't getting the low end right, and tbh jumping between the NS10 and the far fields ,really gives you a sense of what you are trying to achieve in cans and a dancefloor.

So glad I got it. Combined with Morphit from Toneboosters to flatten out my headphones, I'm really pleased.
This is interesting to know as I thought was discovering a little improvement myself, but wasn't sure if it was just a placebo type of effect.

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