WTF Arturia?! 13.9GB and 670k files!!!?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
66 posts since 24 Jul, 2006

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:28 pm

Be aware that moving any folder that windows itself uses and using junctions/hard-links to redirect like this, often breaks the more major windows 10 updates (and will probably break upgrading to windows 11 too).

As long as you are aware of the issue, you can usually re-jiggle things before a big windows update, but I had it break one that took like 4 hours for windows to TRY updating, then another 4 hours to rollback the changes after it decided it couldn't cope (this was one of the bi-annual updates a couple of years ago, broken by %appdata% being offloaded to a HDD from SSD via a junction point.

KVRAF
8766 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:33 pm

The Arturia load times are for sh*t and I bet the GUI is a huge reason as to why. I also don’t know why their plugins expose like a thousand automation parameters to the host. That can’t be helping load times any either.

KVRAF
2268 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:09 pm

I'd vote for better. I can't imagine them going to vector based style graphics but perhaps an option to allow us to install just the magnification levels we want. 80% 100% 140% would do it for me. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the better. That would save a 6 or 7 gb of data storage. I will live it though. I love their stuff so I'll moan a bit and keep on using it. I suspect they know this though so nothing will likely change.

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KVRian
1294 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:51 pm

Yes, it's a mess how they manage graphic resources. It's taking a lot of space, not to mention that reading thousands of files just for the sake of GUI is ultra inefficient, not to mention HDD/SSD wear just for that. It's also affecting loading times.

Being inefficient is never a good thing. No matter if you have zillion TB on your C partition or in RAM or just because it's "I don't care about anything mate" attitude - defending inefficient use of resources simply makes no sense and it's only makes devs lazy. I'll never understand why people excuse such practices.
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

KVRist
305 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:33 pm

Ok then... As a software developer, I've got some constructive thoughts: why can't Arturia learn from u-he regarding bitmap scaling? It might sound like a joke, but apparently it's the best they can do since the UI prerequisites are similar.
Also need another tickets for global silent installation options and for mousewheel support in the synths

Where do we create a JIRA ticket?
Weapons of choice (subject to change):
Godin Redline, Kuassa, Fuse Audio, Audiority, Roland A-500pro, Dune, Dagger, ANA, GForce, Reaper

KVRist
305 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:37 pm

pixel85 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:51 pm
Yes, it's a mess how they manage graphic resources. It's taking a lot of space, not to mention that reading thousands of files just for the sake of GUI is ultra inefficient, not to mention HDD/SSD wear just for that. It's also affecting loading times.

Being inefficient is never a good thing. No matter if you have zillion TB on your C partition or in RAM or just because it's "I don't care about anything mate" attitude - defending inefficient use of resources simply makes no sense and it's only makes devs lazy. I'll never understand why people excuse such practices.
SSD wear is negligible if they don't update those files too often.
It just feels like a sampled instrument, with the difference that only looks are sampled :)
Weapons of choice (subject to change):
Godin Redline, Kuassa, Fuse Audio, Audiority, Roland A-500pro, Dune, Dagger, ANA, GForce, Reaper

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KVRian
899 posts since 31 Dec, 2008

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:56 pm

Dencheg wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:33 pm
Ok then... As a software developer, I've got some constructive thoughts: why can't Arturia learn from u-he regarding bitmap scaling? It might sound like a joke, but apparently it's the best they can do since the UI prerequisites are similar.
The problem with raster image down scaling is that you have to suffer a bit of blurring. No matter what you do, it wont be as crisp and sharp as natively rendered 3D graphics at their individual sizes (Which is what I assume Arturia is using).

Still, I very much understand the >10GB complaint. It is too much.

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KVRian
1294 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:24 am

Dencheg wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:37 pm
pixel85 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:51 pm
Yes, it's a mess how they manage graphic resources. It's taking a lot of space, not to mention that reading thousands of files just for the sake of GUI is ultra inefficient, not to mention HDD/SSD wear just for that. It's also affecting loading times.

Being inefficient is never a good thing. No matter if you have zillion TB on your C partition or in RAM or just because it's "I don't care about anything mate" attitude - defending inefficient use of resources simply makes no sense and it's only makes devs lazy. I'll never understand why people excuse such practices.
SSD wear is negligible if they don't update those files too often.
It just feels like a sampled instrument, with the difference that only looks are sampled :)
Ff you think in a small scale that it's the only files that are read from SSD, then yes. But in reality, Arturia's GUI files is an element that is adding to the bigger picture as there's way more files on SSD drive, especially C partition that is read every day.
Adding the fact that SSD can die in a way worst way than HDD which can show signs of wear by a few bad sectors, while SSD can simply die right away, it's better to prevent SSD wear when it's possible. And in case of GUI for plugins it's absolutely possible. They just need to want to do that but I doubt they will.
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

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KVRian
1294 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 am

Dencheg wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:33 pm
Ok then... As a software developer, I've got some constructive thoughts: why can't Arturia learn from u-he regarding bitmap scaling? It might sound like a joke, but apparently it's the best they can do since the UI prerequisites are similar.
Also need another tickets for global silent installation options and for mousewheel support in the synths

Where do we create a JIRA ticket?
Already in "completed" approved by the entire art team ;) or "not-replicable" :D
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

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KVRian
1018 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:03 am

What I really hate is that every time Arturia posts an update, I have to download 1Gb+ per synth. Every time. Regardless of what was updated. There's no incremental update.

Also, these updates include a zillion .nki files that I will never, ever use and they take up as much space, if not more, as the graphics files. The program files are usually what's been updated and they're literally megabytes each.

When I finally get a new MacBook, I won't be installing the V suite at all. I'll probably just install Pigments and leave it at that. Maybe.

I'd be thrilled with vector graphic knobs and sliders. I don't require 100% visual authenticity, even on things where I own/previously owned the real thing. Just well-laid out and well-labeled widgets that follow the layout and color scheme are perfectly adequate.

Oh, and the ability to Just Say No! to .nkis. The whole suite would be sleeker, perkier and come in under 1Gb for the whole package.

KVRian
641 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:08 am

T-CM11 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:56 pm
Wasteful? Inefficient? Sure! But is it a problem?
It has never bothered me on my 2012 laptop with 256GB SSD - Matrix 12 CPU usage on the other hand.
I tried using an Arturia synth for the One Synth Challenge on this for and my DAW slowed to a crawl and it took an insane amount of time to load. I was not able to finish the challenge because i needed to add a bunch more instances of the synth and it just wasn't working.

KVRist
424 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:56 am

syntonica wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:03 am
What I really hate is that every time Arturia posts an update, I have to download 1Gb+ per synth. Every time. Regardless of what was updated. There's no incremental update.

Also, these updates include a zillion .nki files that I will never, ever use and they take up as much space, if not more, as the graphics files. The program files are usually what's been updated and they're literally megabytes each.

When I finally get a new MacBook, I won't be installing the V suite at all. I'll probably just install Pigments and leave it at that. Maybe.

I'd be thrilled with vector graphic knobs and sliders. I don't require 100% visual authenticity, even on things where I own/previously owned the real thing. Just well-laid out and well-labeled widgets that follow the layout and color scheme are perfectly adequate.

Oh, and the ability to Just Say No! to .nkis. The whole suite would be sleeker, perkier and come in under 1Gb for the whole package.
Be thankful you don't own UVI World Suite 2 - it's always a 36.5GB download, even for the smallest of changes. :dog:

KVRian
654 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:07 am

Dencheg wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:33 pm
Ok then... As a software developer, I've got some constructive thoughts: why can't Arturia learn from u-he regarding bitmap scaling? It might sound like a joke, but apparently it's the best they can do since the UI prerequisites are similar.
Also need another tickets for global silent installation options and for mousewheel support in the synths

Where do we create a JIRA ticket?
You get the best bitmap scaling quality when you use an optimised set for each scaling level. I have no aturia products so I can't compare, but when they are optimised it makes sense to have multiple sets.

You see with most bitmap UIs that the can be get blury at certain scaling levels, because it's just pixel scaling.

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KVRAF
1734 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:32 am

pixel85 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:24 am
Ff you think in a small scale that it's the only files that are read from SSD, then yes. But in reality, Arturia's GUI files is an element that is adding to the bigger picture as there's way more files on SSD drive, especially C partition that is read every day.
What they meant was, the files are being read, not written (unless Arturia updates the graphics often). It's not the reads from an SSD you need to be worried about, in practice the only concern is if something writes excessively on one. So no need to feel stressed out using instruments that always read their graphics from large bitmaps (or read a lot of samples, for that matter) :)

KVRAF
2001 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:39 am

you can set in the arturia software center where the source files must be located...

preferences -> source files...

EDIT: indeed it is a sort of crazy solution.. althoughs knob-pictureres....... but o well... a 500Gb boot drive is necessary these days, although a 256Gb can hold a lot, mainly if it isn't a laptop...
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