DUNE 3 is now available!!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
2420 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:32 pm

Dune 3 has a knob called Interpol on the wavetable section of the synth. Does this mean interpolation or internal polarity. Hive 2 has Polarity in reference to the wave display. Humm...

A check of the manual confirms interpolation.
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KVRist
319 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:26 pm

Could be Interpol level for those who dislike Dune (heartless non-smooth criminals?)
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KVRAF
7607 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:28 pm

Not me! I'm not Kriminal!

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KVRAF
20406 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:57 pm

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:38 pm
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:15 am
I think D&D is just a fad that people ask for out of habit without actually understanding the current modulation system.
Do you actually believe such nonsense?

I can only assume that you don't have a synth using drag & drop modulation. Get the Spire or Hive 2 demo, and play a bit with it, and then come back here to say that you find a conventional modulation matrix easier and faster. Will be a good laugh, I'm afraid.

You know, it's all fine that you like Dune, but, you really should come out of defensive mode once in a while, and accept valid suggestions that will make the synth better. On the other hand, thinking about it, it's not YOU who has to accept that anyway, as you don't code the synth. ;)
Even ignoring drag-n-drop modulation and just looking at the modulation matrix, the one in Dune3 is poor. One tiny little fake LCD screen that only shows 7 sources/targets at a time. After that you gotta start scrolling.

Vital has a similar mod matrix as Dune in that it is a scrolling list. 12 visible slots at a time. But each slot has a unipolar/bipolar switch, a L/R option, a quick mod graph, a full mod-remapper graph, and clicking on the slot# disables that slot. Dune has nothing of the sort. Each slot is as rudimentary as possible.

Vital, because the matrix scrolls, can keep adding more slots. Never found the limit. Dune, though it is scrolling it is fixed to 32 slots. And scrolling in the Dune Matrix is tricky. The only safe place to scroll is on the actual scrollbar. Hovering over any other area scrolls individual parameters... except the slot #, scrolling there does nothing.

Dune3 gives no indication when a parameter is modulated. Nothing. Right click on a parameter and again nothing. Right click on a parameter in Vital or Hive and you can see the various modulations on that parameter and in the case of Vital, edit mod depths. The only way to see if a parameter is modulated is to go scroll through the tiny matrix and manually check. Ugh!

I find the modulation system of Dune to be undeveloped, poor workflow and too limited. The single only saving grace is being able to right click a parameter and assign a modulator. Besides that it could not be worse or more rudimentary except not having modulation at all.

Every other synth I use is far better for modulation.

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KVRAF
16411 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:14 am

Biome_Digital wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:31 am
Yes that would be a problem, but I don't care about that. I request features, not design synths
So you don't care that the feature you request can't be implemented for certain connections? Then you haven't given your request enough thought.
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:38 pm
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:15 am
I think D&D is just a fad that people ask for out of habit without actually understanding the current modulation system.
Do you actually believe such nonsense?
It's not nonsense, you don't own DUNE 3 so you don't understand the current modulation system. I've spent hundreds of hours with DUNE so I do understand its system and how some connections simply can't be made by Drag and Drop.
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:38 pm
I can only assume that you don't have a synth using drag & drop modulation. Get the Spire or Hive 2 demo,
I can only assume you failed to read this so yea I'm having a good laugh:
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:15 am
Hive 2 has Drag and Drop and I don't find its system any faster as you have click to drag then drag then drop. Either way we're talking about a difference of a second or two at best.
I've owned Hive since version one and have programmed hundreds of patches for it. Again I don't find it's D&D system any faster than DUNE 3's

Take this connection for example:
DD 1.png
You have to drag the mouse all the way across the GUI then all the way back because you still have to return to the Mod Matrix to adjust values. It's not faster.

Look all I'm pushing back against is the notion that D&D is a "must have". "Nice to have" maybe but people have programmed thousands of patches for DUNE and I've done hundreds without D&D. It's not a needed feature since you can already make more connections with the current right click assign system than you would be able to with D&D and do it just as fast. It brings little value if any to DUNE 3....in my opinion of course. But it's an opinion based on hundreds of hours of experience not on spending a few minutes with the Demo version.
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:38 pm
You know, it's all fine that you like Dune, but, you really should come out of defensive mode once in a while, and accept valid suggestions that will make the synth better. On the other hand, thinking about it, it's not YOU who has to accept that anyway, as you don't code the synth. ;)
Maybe if you'd come out of attack mode and stop posting about a synth you don't own or ever plan on owning I might agree. Seems like a total waste of time to constantly comment on a plugin you'll never own based on your own comments over the years.

So if someone makes a feature request THEY want it's not all about THEM? Then it's just as selfish asking for Synapse to spend time on the features they want as it is me trying to talk sense into people that such features are not a "Priority!" or a "Must Have" to experienced users.

Of course it's not about me any more than it's about you and your wishes.

At any rate it's unlikely Rich or Marcin will see these feature requests and I don't have any influence on what they do or don't do so all we're accomplishing here is trading opinions back and forth.

So if people are serious about any request then make it at the Synapse company forum where it will be seen.

And in the end once again you failed to read this:
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:24 am
All I can say is I hope everybody eventually gets what they want and we'll see what the future holds. :tu:
Where I hoped everybody gets what they want eventually. I'll say it again I hope everybody gets what they want but there is no Feature Fairy that can wave her magic wand and make everybody happy all at once. Reality doesn't work like that and development time has to be spent where the developers feel it does the most good. I trust that Synapse will do just that and like I said who knows what the future holds. Perhaps there will be drag and drop modulation or perhaps they'll spend that time developing another great synth. Only they know for sure.....
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KVRAF
10136 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:18 am

THE INTRANCER wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:32 pm
Dune 3 has a knob called Interpol on the wavetable section of the synth. Does this mean interpolation or internal polarity. Hive 2 has Polarity in reference to the wave display. Humm...

A check of the manual confirms interpolation.
Good story bro

v1o
KVRAF
3029 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:07 am

Muziksculp wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:12 am
I wonder if Richard is working on DUNE 4 ?
Thats not been announced AFAIK. What has been talking about is that they're working on a Memory Moog.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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KVRAF
1781 posts since 23 Sep, 2005

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:08 am

v1o wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:07 am
Muziksculp wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:12 am
I wonder if Richard is working on DUNE 4 ?
Thats not been announced AFAIK. What has been talking about is that they're working on a Memory Moog.
Wow !!! A Synapse Audio Memorymoog, that would be Awesome. :party:

I would still love them to work on a DUNE 4 release.

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KVRAF
20406 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:02 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:14 am
You have to drag the mouse all the way across the GUI then all the way back because you still have to return to the Mod Matrix to adjust values. It's not faster.

Look all I'm pushing back against is the notion that D&D is a "must have". "Nice to have" maybe but people have programmed thousands of patches for DUNE and I've done hundreds without D&D. It's not a needed feature since you can already make more connections with the current right click assign system than you would be able to with D&D and do it just as fast. It brings little value if any to DUNE 3....in my opinion of course. But it's an opinion based on hundreds of hours of experience not on spending a few minutes with the Demo version.
That is a ridiculous example... you are dragging from the mod matrix... no need to do that. Drag from the modulator. Either you are being disingenuous or you don't know how to use Hive well.

Drag-n-drop modulation is far better than the under-developed mess in Dune. Yes, it is relatively fast to assign a modulator in Dune, but that is only 1 part of an effective modulation system. Quickly adjusting depths for multiple parameters, visual feedback on what is being modulated, capability to modify mod curves, via option and so on. Dune fails on all those fronts. And that annoying little matrix screen that only shows 7 rudimentary slots at once insures lots of needless scrolling.

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KVRAF
16411 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:32 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:02 am
That is a ridiculous example... you are dragging from the mod matrix... no need to do that. Drag from the modulator. Either you are being disingenuous or you don't know how to use Hive well.
Of course it's an extreme example. But even dragging from the modulator doesn't save you much mouse movement. The point is you can accomplish the same task without ever leaving the Mod Matrix slot. In the end both methods require mouse movement and clicks. If you know the Mod Matrix then that's all you really need. D&D is not a "must have" since it accomplishes nothing that you can't do in the MM. Like I said it might be "nice to have" for some people but obviously people are using DUNE 3 without it as we speak and have done so for years.
pdxindy wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:02 am
Drag-n-drop modulation is far better than the under-developed mess in Dune. Yes, it is relatively fast to assign a modulator in Dune, but that is only 1 part of an effective modulation system. Quickly adjusting depths for multiple parameters, visual feedback on what is being modulated, capability to modify mod curves, via option and so on. Dune fails on all those fronts. And that annoying little matrix screen that only shows 7 rudimentary slots at once insures lots of needless scrolling.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Obviously I feel differently. I don't need visual feedback since I know what modulation is happening by simply looking at the matrix or by simply remembering what I've done in a patch. Yes you have to scroll to see all the MM but I don't find scrolling a difficult task.

All I can say is I've happily done hundreds of patches with DUNE 3 without any fancy graphics or Drag and Drop. I use multiple instances of DUNE 3 in every project.

I'd rather they spend precious development time on things that affect the sound of DUNE 3 and not on features of supposed convenience.

Again I have no influence on what Synapse does or doesn't do. But I have advocated for a new browser system that I have no desire or need for just because I've seen so many people ask for that feature.

So if you're serious about Drag and Drop and not just complaining to hear yourself complain then go to the Synapse forum and make your request. Otherwise you're just barking into the wind here.

I'll say it for the third time I hope everybody gets their requests granted eventually but just as you I hope my requests come first and just as those who want a new browser hope it comes first and so on.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRian
683 posts since 27 Nov, 2011

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am

It’s okay to say things only once! :)

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addled muppet weed
85885 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am

you can say that again...

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KVRAF
16411 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:49 am

padillac wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am
It’s okay to say things only once! :)
Sure when it sinks in the first time..... :wink:
vurt wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am
you can say that again...
Thanks for yet another important contribution Vurt. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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KVRAF
16411 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:49 am

Anyway to contribute something positive to this thread I've done some color edits for the DUNE 3 large skin. The dark center screen is thanks to Synapse forum member Matt Leschuck and of course all credit goes to the creator of the original skin Mikael Eidenberg.

I've only done the Large version so far and I won't post links unless there is interest. Otherwise no sense bothering.


D3 080121-1.png
D3 Blue 1.png
D3 Blue 2.png
D3 Blue 3.png
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None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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addled muppet weed
85885 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:50 am

Teksonik wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:49 am
padillac wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am
It’s okay to say things only once! :)
Sure when it sinks in the first time..... :wink:
vurt wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am
you can say that again...
Thanks for yet another important contribution Vurt. :tu:
happy to help :tu:

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