Alias / Linked / Shared / Pooled Clips - are you using them?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Are you using alias / linked / shared / pooled clips?

Yes, all the time
22
36%
Yes, occasionally
8
13%
No, although my (main) DAW has it
17
28%
No, my (main) DAW does not have it
10
16%
I had no idea there's such a feature
4
7%
 
Total votes: 61

Eclectrophonic
KVRist
323 posts since 24 Aug, 2014

Post Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:52 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:50 am
Eclectrophonic wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:09 am
It's the only way the clips (patterns) behave in FL Studio.
It's not the only way in FL - you can "make unique" and remove the clip from pool

Eclectrophonic wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:09 am
I was telling a colleague at college 8 years ago, it would make a cool feature in Reason (explaining that it would be great if you changed something in one clip and it automatically changed in all duplicated clips), not realising other daw's already did it at the time. It's one of my top 5 most wanted features for Reason along with linked automation, midi chase, track folders and time markers.
Blocks mode already does that (for a vertical slice, mind) and it was introduced 10 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6UFCdD4Lyk
Yeah but that's if you wanna use Blocks mode. Haven't extensively used it. I was talking about linked clips. Also, can you include automation in Blocks? In Reaper you can link the automation and item (clip) together so the automation that is also part of that part is also linked.

xbitz
KVRAF
3439 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:02 pm

at least Bitwig opens clips inside the same track at the top/bottom of each other (normal/drum editor view)
Image
together with clip looping, it's better than nothing (unfortunately it doesn't work with automation clips but who uses clip-based automation in BWS anyway ... )
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

10775 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:28 pm

xbitz wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:02 pm
...but who uses clip-based automation in BWS anyway
I do. Especially the additive or multiplicative kind.
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

rockguycris
KVRer
6 posts since 2 Jan, 2018

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:34 am

eclipxe wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:55 pm


I built a replacement to Alias Clips that does the same thing, but its simply based on Clip names, with a handy floating window for autonaming. The basics are:
Link?! This sounds amazing. Are you offering this to the public? Let me know. I'd also be down to test it for you and catch any bugs

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

10775 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:39 am

rockguycris wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:34 am
eclipxe wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:55 pm


I built a replacement to Alias Clips that does the same thing, but its simply based on Clip names, with a handy floating window for autonaming. The basics are:
Link?! This sounds amazing. Are you offering this to the public? Let me know. I'd also be down to test it for you and catch any bugs
Here's one: http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
inkwarp
KVRian
880 posts since 16 Jan, 2012 from UK

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:09 am

I've been after something like this for ages !
Has anyone tested this? I'd happily pay $10 as long as it works : )

apoclypse
KVRian
773 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:20 am

I really like Alias clips but I can see why maybe Ableton and Bitwig don't do that. It can get confusing sometimes in their particular workflow. An example is Maschine which pretty much only worked with Alias patterns until they added a clip feature. You would have to duplicate patterns to get any variety and especially in the early days this would be annoying if you forgot and overwrote something you actually liked. I would do this all the time by mistake. They mitigated that issue some with the Unique function in 2.x but imo that just made the workflow even more complicated.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

10775 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:51 am

apoclypse wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:20 am
I really like Alias clips but I can see why maybe Ableton and Bitwig don't do that. It can get confusing sometimes in their particular workflow. An example is Maschine which pretty much only worked with Alias patterns until they added a clip feature. You would have to duplicate patterns to get any variety and especially in the early days this would be annoying if you forgot and overwrote something you actually liked. I would do this all the time by mistake. They mitigated that issue some with the Unique function in 2.x but imo that just made the workflow even more complicated.
It's not confusing when alias is an alternative you can use and not a default. So basically the opposite of Maschine or FL Studio.
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

xbitz
KVRAF
3439 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:25 am

^^^ and S1 have variations too
Image
which is per pattern clip instance based https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... rn-editing
Last edited by xbitz on Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

Dalle
KVRist
127 posts since 24 Oct, 2015

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:31 am

For my workflow I don’t see a situation where creating and managing alias clips would be more efficient than just copying and pasting when needed (which isn’t often).

rockguycris
KVRer
6 posts since 2 Jan, 2018

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:43 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:39 am
rockguycris wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:34 am
eclipxe wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:55 pm


I built a replacement to Alias Clips that does the same thing, but its simply based on Clip names, with a handy floating window for autonaming. The basics are:
Link?! This sounds amazing. Are you offering this to the public? Let me know. I'd also be down to test it for you and catch any bugs
Here's one: http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/
The UI looks different than the one shown by @eclipxe. I also knew about this one, but I think the maker sais it doesn't work in Live 11 and that he's not planning on supporting it anymore.

Biscotto
KVRian
633 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:38 pm

In BWS you can at least Ctrl Click the Duplicate Clips you need (MIDI in this case) anywhere in the Arranger (from multiple tracks) and then in Editing Layer Mode make that changes you need to see in all those Clips (they overlap perfectly) and if you need, change their color as well.

Not ideal but for small projects/Sketches it's no bad. It's not that tedious....

In Ableton it's not as easy as above.
Ableton > :phones: < Bitwig

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

10775 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:47 pm

Biscotto wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:38 pm
In BWS you can at least Ctrl Click the Duplicate Clips you need (MIDI in this case) anywhere in the Arranger (from multiple tracks) and then in Editing Layer Mode make that changes you need to see in all those Clips (they overlap perfectly) and if you need, change their color as well.

Not ideal but for small projects/Sketches it's no bad. It's not that tedious...
I hope devs don't read it and think that this is a valid workaround :roll:

The whole point of alias clips is NOT having to select all of them to alter them :)
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Biscotto
KVRian
633 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:58 pm

antic604 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:47 pm
Biscotto wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:38 pm
In BWS you can at least Ctrl Click the Duplicate Clips you need (MIDI in this case) anywhere in the Arranger (from multiple tracks) and then in Editing Layer Mode make that changes you need to see in all those Clips (they overlap perfectly) and if you need, change their color as well.

Not ideal but for small projects/Sketches it's no bad. It's not that tedious...
I hope devs don't read it and think that this is a valid workaround :roll:

The whole point of alias clips is NOT having to select all of them to alter them :)
I use them (Alias) quite rarely for my type of music, but it seems to be a desperate call from BW and Live users.
The above it's not a workaround but Band-Aid for users like me that need that feature during concept creation.

I wonder if this is a call for lack of Water since the faucet was closed but no one was thirsty before that moment... :hihi:
Ableton > :phones: < Bitwig

apoclypse
KVRian
773 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:04 pm

antic604 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:51 am
apoclypse wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:20 am
I really like Alias clips but I can see why maybe Ableton and Bitwig don't do that. It can get confusing sometimes in their particular workflow. An example is Maschine which pretty much only worked with Alias patterns until they added a clip feature. You would have to duplicate patterns to get any variety and especially in the early days this would be annoying if you forgot and overwrote something you actually liked. I would do this all the time by mistake. They mitigated that issue some with the Unique function in 2.x but imo that just made the workflow even more complicated.
It's not confusing when alias is an alternative you can use and not a default. So basically the opposite of Maschine or FL Studio.
Right but the problem is a design one. I'm not saying Alias clips wouldn't be useful I'm saying that it can be confusing if not implemented well. Logic has alias clips and a clip launcher, yet they chose not to support alias clips in the clip launcher. So there has to be a reason for these decisions. You can't just add things without thinking what the workflow may be for users and I gave an example of where imo that can fail or break a workflow.

If Scenes in Ableton-like DAWs worked like they do in hardware it would make more sense. Maschine's Ideas view or the MC707/101s sequencer is probably closer to what I mean. Scenes in Ableton-like DAWs are a collection of clips. Scenes in the MC707/101 is a collection of references to clips. There is a difference there. For example in Ableton Scene 1 would consist of all the clips I want to play on that scene. If I have clips that I want Scene 1 to launch I have to copy those clips to the scene 1 area. In Maschine Ideas view or the MC, its actually, scene 1: plays pattern 3 on track 1, pattern 5 on track 2, pattern 4 on track 3 etc. Any Scene can play any pattern in a track without me having to copy that clip to the Scene. It's referencing the pattern.

Now if all you are talking about is Alias clips in the arrange view then sure I 100% agree it should be there (like I said Logic has that), however I'm sure what people want is Alias clips in the session view as well the arrange view and given almost all Ableton like DAWs work the same I'm wondering if there is a limitation somewhere that we don't know about.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

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