Toneboosters Dual VCF

[mystran]

LFO running at 20kHz is extreme (and filtering it out might make some sense in order to combat aliasing from the sidebands). LFO running at 200Hz is not.

[TIMT]

No fanboyism here, as I think we need this kind of thorough examination to sort of separate the wheat from the chaff - nonetheless I want to add that this may be a matter of CPU consumption too. I think in regards to this both companies purposely have quite a different approach so they may not be the ideal candidates for direct comparison.

That raises the question though,why even bother to offer such a product when you have to skimp on the features,whatever the legitimate reasons may be.i don't see the point of creating a filter product,that posits that it can do audiorate modulatIon(it is not implied the marketing,but with the introduction of LFO's that go into audiorate,and the claims of being VCF models that you would anticipate as much),but actually chooses not to do it well due to some CPU constraints.

Its not just the rate at which the filter updates either.it seems like the filter itself is being forced into doing things it doesn't want to as its not a proper VCF design.listen to the higher pole filters and tell me they are based on e.g an "80ies" VCF.the resonance is simply scaled differently on the different filters and that is all that differentiates them.no non-linearties arise independent of the waveshaping that is common to the plugin itself.there are no instabilities,non-linearties in the resonance/filter loop itself.we keep mentioning TheDrop because amongst digital filter models it is generally considered the one to beat,but check any filter that does some VCF modelling and you'll find the same common elements even as far back as something like Frantic Filter.it's just a bit surprising to me how absent the VCF sound is on the whole with this plugin compared to stuff that came out over 10 years ago and given Jeroen's usually stellar output

[jens]

LFO running at 20kHz is extreme (and filtering it out might make some sense in order to combat aliasing from the sidebands). LFO running at 200Hz is not.

Wait - What?!?

Few plugin LFOs even just go nearly that fast...

(and at that speed it's not LF anymore anyway - it's far up there in the audible spectrum)

[gentleclockdivider]

Filter Fm is common in synths , using osc’s as mod sources .
A filter plugin just uses audio rate capable lfo’s , the only difference is uni versus bipolar signals ,
The drop lfos go to 22khz ,

[jens]

I know this - it's just not super common and a filter is far from being useless without it...

[mabian]

I understand that the ability to have fast LFOs at audio rate could be quite useful and convenient for sound design and other effects, but at least for me, the main subject is to understand how the filter performs in general at "normal" duties, that is the overall quality of the filter sound and the "musicality" of it, including how it deals with sweeps, resonances and loudness even-ness throughout the spectrum.
Do we have really have something interesting since 1.5 that can worthily compare with The Drop, FilterShaper Core 2, and similar references?
I would also happily pay more if that would help to bring to the table better filters.

About the audio rate LFO and the smoothing, why not just making it optional?

Thanks,
Mario

[TIMT]

I understand that the ability to have fast LFOs at audio rate could be quite useful and convenient for sound design and other effects, but at least for me, the main subject is to understand how the filter performs in general at "normal" duties, that is the overall quality of the filter sound and the "musicality" of it, including how it deals with sweeps, resonances and loudness even-ness throughout the spectrum.
Do we have really have something interesting since 1.5 that can worthily compare with The Drop, FilterShaper Core 2, and similar references?
I would also happily pay more if that would help to bring to the table better filters.

About the audio rate LFO and the smoothing, why not just making it optional?

Thanks,
Mario

Only my opinion and expect tonnes of people to think the contrary.no. i don't think DualVCF compares with any of those plugins in terms of the filters themselves. just forgetting about the audiorate stuff for a bit,the filters as is are not as good at exhibiting a decent imitation of an analog VCF sound as the products you used as an example are in my honest opinion

Its a pretty flexible plugin and if you are just looking for a stable of bread and butter digital filters that provides some modulation,distortion and some choice of filter types it might be worth a purchase.if you are actually looking for a filter plugin which has a sound reminiscent of an analog VCF i'd look elsewhere e.g TheDrop,Filtershaper,RAMSES,Reaktor blocks with the new core filters,Etch,some of AudioThing's offerings to name a few

[mabian]

I understand that the ability to have fast LFOs at audio rate could be quite useful and convenient for sound design and other effects, but at least for me, the main subject is to understand how the filter performs in general at "normal" duties, that is the overall quality of the filter sound and the "musicality" of it, including how it deals with sweeps, resonances and loudness even-ness throughout the spectrum.
Do we have really have something interesting since 1.5 that can worthily compare with The Drop, FilterShaper Core 2, and similar references?
I would also happily pay more if that would help to bring to the table better filters.

About the audio rate LFO and the smoothing, why not just making it optional?

Thanks,
Mario

Only my opinion and expect tonnes of people to think the contrary.no. i don't think DualVCF compares with any of those plugins in terms of the filters themselves. just forgetting about the audiorate stuff for a bit,the filters as is are not as good at exhibiting a decent imitation of an analog VCF sound as the products you used as an example are in my honest opinion

Its a pretty flexible plugin and if you are just looking for a stable of bread and butter digital filters that provides some modulation,distortion and some choice of filter types it might be worth a purchase.if you are actually looking for a filter plugin which has a sound reminiscent of an analog VCF i'd look elsewhere e.g TheDrop,Filtershaper,RAMSES,Reaktor blocks with the new core filters,Etch,some of AudioThing's offerings to name a few

Thank you, much appreciated
Just an opinion of course but a crystal clear one

- Mario

[dreamvoid]

I have a lot of different filter plug ins, incl. UAD, Arturia etc. and use Toneboosters Dual VCF with great results. I don't care for another replica of vintage filters. The filters are usable in a very precise, exact way and have multi-channel capability, which is a big plus for me. The sound quality is very good, nothing holds me back to use them for high end work situations.
Right now these filters play a big role in a complex VR project with delicate sound design I'm working on.
If you ask always the same, old questions about something you can miss the the specific structure and peculiarity of another thing.

[mabian]

New version out.
Changelog:

Improved sound quality for high LFO modulation rates
New 'time free' LFO mode that is not synced with the host time line
New preset manager to load, save, rename, delete, search and categorize user programs
Improved support for soft bypass (if supported by host program)

[sinkmusic]

A new version is out, with a new GUI where we can't see both filters at once
I don't get the tabbed interface for such a simple plugin, as it make the workflow worse...
Please, Jeroen, consider bringing back the dual display for the dual vcf!

[mabian]

Kinda agree, at least the old GUI should be made available as an option, or even better do something with the old smaller boxes by default and a zoom/tab button to switch to the tabbed version (and the view state persisted).

- Mario

[Vortifex]

He has a habit of doing this with his GUIs. Updates and bug fixes = cool. Sudden complete reworks of the interface? Not really a fan unless it's a significant workflow improvement. You can't beat one-page interfaces (or as close as possible to it) for sheer convenience. This is a step backwards.

[gentleclockdivider]

Target audience : ipad users with sausage fingers

[briefcasemanx]

Seems like, without changing the UI, there could just be an option or button where it shows the non-active filter overlaid on the same graph in a different color.