Is Bitwig the best DAW for MPE?

[simplersounds]

Is Bitwig better than Ableton 11 for MPE integration?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Yes it is. Apparently Ableton doesn't keep the midi channels that were played. Bitwig used to do this and it was a pain for a lot of things.

[SLiC]

Bitwig is the best DAW I have found for MPE personally, tried them all other than Logic.

[simplersounds]

Yes it is. Apparently Ableton doesn't keep the midi channels that were played. Bitwig used to do this and it was a pain for a lot of things.

Would you elaborate a bit more on this? pun intended

What is the practical implication of not keeping the midi channels that were played?

[antic604]

Bitwig is the best DAW. Full stop

[simplersounds]

Bitwig is the best DAW. Full stop

I'm tempted to give it a try, have they kept most of the same key commands etc as ableton? I guess I'd like to know how hard the learning curve is?

[antic604]

I'm tempted to give it a try, have they kept most of the same key commands etc as ableton? I guess I'd like to know how hard the learning curve is?

No, but unlike Ableton they're user-defined.

But it would be wholeheartedly advised you forget Ableton when switching to Bitwig. It's its own thing by now and deserves to be approached as such.

[pdxindy]

Yes it is. Apparently Ableton doesn't keep the midi channels that were played. Bitwig used to do this and it was a pain for a lot of things.

Would you elaborate a bit more on this? pun intended

What is the practical implication of not keeping the midi channels that were played?

One example: I have an Elektron Analog 4. It can function as 4 mono synths and each can receive its own midi channel. So I can put the same preset on all 4 tracks which receive midi channels 1-4

I can then set my Linnstrument to only rotate midi channels 1-4 with each new note.

If you record the output of the Linnstrument into Live 11, it does not record each notes midi channel. Live then does its own round robin for MPE, but it only does 1-16 for midi channels. So in this case, the first 4 notes played would trigger the notes of the A4, but then notes 5-16 would do nothing and when it cycled back to 1, it would again trigger the A4.

Example Two: Same basic thing but using a non MPE softsynth like Massive X or Zebra. You can make them MPE by using multiple instances with the same preset. In this case, you would have to make 16 instances, instead of being able to use whatever number of instances was suitable which is often just a few.

Example Three: Suppose you want to use the Split function of Linnstrument (or other MPE controller) to play 2 different sounds. You set the Linnstrument so each sound/split does not overlap midi channels (1-8 on one and 9-16 on the other or whatever you wish). Because Live doesn't record the midi channel, the sounds will not play back as you recorded them.

There are a number of other use cases where what you play is not what plays back.

[pdxindy]

Is Bitwig better than Ableton 11 for MPE integration?

If you use the Bitwig instruments, then Bitwig is much better. All the Bitwig modulators can be per voice with Bitwig instruments. So the entire Bitwig Modulation system works with MPE for Bitwig instruments! Live modulation is global (monophonic not polyphonic) so it doesn't work with MPE. So the Live instruments only have the MPE capability as built into each instrument... which changes from instrument to instrument.

The creative potential of MPE with Bitwig instruments is exceptional!

[Tj Shredder]

What is the practical implication of not keeping the midi channels that were played?

Another one is that if you play bisbigliando (two notes of the same pitch), it will not play two notes with the same pitch, but silence the other. In general it will not play back exactly what you played and heard while playing. Especially if you have slight differences programmed into each voice...
Bitwig has the most easy way to turn a monophonic synth into a MPE capable polysynth via the instrument selector (free robin)...

[WasteLand]

the MPE of Reaper and Cubase also is also pretty good. if not excellent (Cubase..).

[Tj Shredder]

Actually MPE in a DAW doesn‘t need to be specially supported if the DAW would simply just record and pass on Midi unchanged. Most DAWs though transform Midi into their own higher resolution automation format and don‘t keep all the information. That way Midi channels and sysex get lost and the problems start to appear. Bitwig struggled with this in the beginning until they fixed most of it…

[pdxindy]

In general it will not play back exactly what you played and heard while playing. Especially if you have slight differences programmed into each voice...
Bitwig has the most easy way to turn a monophonic synth into a MPE capable polysynth via the instrument selector (free robin)...

The Bitwig Instrument Selector is a powerful MPE tool.

I can play a chord with my left hand, use a foot pedal to switch layers, then play something with my right hand on the new patch. At the sale time, the held notes of the left hand chord are still MPE aware. I can use aftertouch on an individual note and it stills responds.

That left hand chord could be using the Bitwig Arpeggiator, which also responds to MPE so one can control the arpeggiation in realtime per note.

[pdxindy]

Actually MPE in a DAW doesn‘t need to be specially supported if the DAW would simply just record and pass on Midi unchanged.

Most users will want to be able to edit that data in meaningful ways.

[pdxindy]

the MPE of Reaper and Cubase also is also pretty good. if not excellent (Cubase..).

Yeah, Cubase is excellent in terms of recording and editing MPE data.

Where Bitwig stands apart is all the ways one can work with MPE as a sound design tool. Between the Grid, Arpeggiator, Modulation (per voice MPE capable) and Selector Devices you can do all sorts of stuff no other DAW can do.

Want to play a 4 note chord where each note has its own arpeggiator and the poly pressure of each note controls the speed of that arp? Easy...