Best MPE controller?

[BONES]

But there is no wider take up and there won't be until Yamaha or Roland or Korg release some MPE controllers or synths. They have had 19 years to look at the Continuum and do their own thing but they have shown less than no interest because, unlike you, they can see that there is not much market for it.

The Erae Touch and Osmose are new MPE controllers. Haken recently released a new and improved version of the Continuum.

And still, after 19 years, I have never seen one in a shop or in use. In fact, I only found out it existed at all a couple of years ago. Compare that to the Chapman Stick, which was equally kind of out there, yet quite a common site at one point in the 80s. And Osmose hasn't appeared yet, after how many years since they announced it? Roli haven't had any Seaboards in stock all year and all their products, which used to be freely available here in Australia, have completely disappeared from shops, even on line retailers. And Roli themselves have moved on from MPE to their Lumi keyboards.

There are existing MPE controllers like the Joue Play and Pro, The Sensel Morph, Keith Mcmillens QuNexus, QuNeo and the K Board Pro, Madrona Labs Soundplane and the Eigenharp, Linnstrument and Roli products.

So what? Every mainstream brand had a 3D TV, how many do now?

Bitwig, Live, Cubase, Studio One, Logic and Reaper now all have MPE support. Live and Studio One in the last year.

I'm sure they also support half-a-dozen other arcane standards nobody uses.

Dozens of softsynths now support MPE and a growing number of hardware synths too.

Name one brand name hardware synth that supports MPE. It's exactly what I said yesterday - a tiny niche, supported by things like my Micromonsta, not by Korg or Roland or Sequential or Moog. And it's a kludge, a horrible waste of MIDI. I've got two Roli MPE controllers and I never use MPE, I work in Single Channel mode 100% of the time. It just doesn't offer enough to be of value to me. I am also yet to see a compelling demo to make me think MPE has any value.

All that is a lot of development energy. Yes, MPE is niche, but it is a solid niche that is here to stay.

We'll see but, already, the highest profile player, the one who bought MPE to the attention of the masses, looks like it could fall over at any moment and seems to have taken a big step away from the market. It takes a pretty warped perspective to see that as signaling a bright future for the technology.

[pdxindy]

And Osmose hasn't appeared yet, after how many years since they announced it?

It has been less than 2 years since it was announced (mid Nov 2019) and it has been delayed like lots of things by the pandemic...

But carry on with your anti-MPE crusade. You're like one of those flat earthers.

[BONES]

Less than 2 years!?! That's an absurd amount of time. How long after Korg announced Wavestate could you buy it? A month? How long after IK announced Uno Pro did shipments start? That was a long time, around 4 months. So two years is a crazy amount of time to go from announce to still not ready.

What sort of idiot would think I was "anti-MPE"? I currently own two MPE controllers and have a third one on order. But just because I happen to really like it doesn't automatically mean that it will be popular enough to survive. Quite the opposite, the things I really like almost inevitably disappear without a trace.

[aMUSEd]

But there is no wider take up and there won't be until Yamaha or Roland or Korg release some MPE controllers or synths. They have had 19 years to look at the Continuum and do their own thing but they have shown less than no interest because, unlike you, they can see that there is not much market for it.

Don't know about Korg or Roland but Yamaha were part of the MPE working group

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/mpe-m ... mpact-you/

and although they don't have a MPE capable controller yet they do own Cubase, which is probably the most MPE capable DAW and one of the first to implement it. It's still early days for MPE and even more for MIDI 2. The Continuum and other early experiments in going beyond traditional keyboards are red herrings really, the standard is what enables the real progress because it creates the basis for compatibility between products regardless of the producer.

[BONES]

Just because Yamaha owns Steinberg doesn't mean they have any influence over what Steinberg does. And it's not early days for MPE - Haken Continuum is 19 years old and Roli has pretty much been and gone. A standard means f**k-all when it comes to getting customers interested and MIDI 2 makes it obsolete anyway. If Roli couldn't make a go of it, no-one else will. Again, I will point you to polyphonic aftertouch - 50 years later, nobody has ever taken any interest in it. Why would it be different with MPE?

[pdxindy]

What sort of idiot would think I was "anti-MPE"?

It might be all the negative MPE posts you make... and you make a lot of them. You are like the anti-MPE poster-boy on KVR.

[pdxindy]

Less than 2 years!?! That's an absurd amount of time. How long after Korg announced Wavestate could you buy it? A month? How long after IK announced Uno Pro did shipments start? That was a long time, around 4 months. So two years is a crazy amount of time to go from announce to still not ready.

Korg is a large (musically speaking) company. And the Wavestate is a known device. Nothing new or different about it. Standard case, standard keyboard, and some code. Another cookie-cutter box (a good one) with no unknowns and nothing unexpected. And they don't have to announce it early to get funding.

The Osmose is a tiny company producing something entirely new. The keyboard is a new and unique mechanical structure that has required a lot of engineering and development work. ExpressiveE was clear from the start that it would be a considerable time before it shipped. It's basically like a kickstarter where part of announcing it early is to get funding from pre-orders to proceed.

And being a tiny company, without an established production pipeline, and creating an entirely new mechanical structure, they have had more difficulty moving forward during the pandemic than a company like Korg.

The two are not comparable situations at all.

[pdxindy]

If Roli couldn't make a go of it, no-one else will. Again, I will point you to polyphonic aftertouch - 50 years later, nobody has ever taken any interest in it. Why would it be different with MPE?

Roli is their own worst enemy. Lots of companies fail, not because they have bad product ideas, but for other reasons. Roli got lots of venture capital, put itself into debt, and depended on turning MPE into the "next big thing". They rolled the dice on an iffy outcome and are failing.

MPE is always gonna be somewhat niche. That's just fine. It is a solid and stable niche which is developing well. New controllers are coming out and new synths. Hydrasynth has a PolyAT keyboard and the ribbon controller and the synth supports MPE. Ableton Push also supports PolyAT. Behringer may be making a PolyAT keybed for a CS-80 emulation (hard to keep track of what is announced vs what is actually going to see the light of day).

MPE (polyphonic expression) is growing and is here to stay.

[Echoes in the Attic]

If Roli couldn't make a go of it, no-one else will. Again, I will point you to polyphonic aftertouch - 50 years later, nobody has ever taken any interest in it. Why would it be different with MPE?

Roli is their own worst enemy. Lots of companies fail, not because they have bad product ideas, but for other reasons. Roli got lots of venture capital, put itself into debt, and depended on turning MPE into the "next big thing". They rolled the dice on an iffy outcome and are failing.

They may be failing financially but they did make a good go of it. There are plenty of seaboards and blocks out there being used. Then there is the linnstrument which is in high demand, and lots of other mpe controllers. I'd say MPE has been pretty successful. Poly aftertouch is ok, but many didn't care (including myself) for many years because that additional expression just wasn't that life changing. But once you have pitch and slide in there, it's a totally different type of instrument in many ways. So yeah MPE isn't going away, regardless of the success or failure of any single company.

[pdxindy]

If Roli couldn't make a go of it, no-one else will. Again, I will point you to polyphonic aftertouch - 50 years later, nobody has ever taken any interest in it. Why would it be different with MPE?

Roli is their own worst enemy. Lots of companies fail, not because they have bad product ideas, but for other reasons. Roli got lots of venture capital, put itself into debt, and depended on turning MPE into the "next big thing". They rolled the dice on an iffy outcome and are failing.

They may be failing financially but they did make a good go of it. There are plenty of seaboards and blocks out there being used. Then there is the linnstrument which is in high demand, and lots of other mpe controllers. I'd say MPE has been pretty successful. Poly aftertouch is ok, but many didn't care (including myself) for many years because that additional expression just wasn't that life changing. But once you have pitch and slide in there, it's a totally different type of instrument in many ways. So yeah MPE isn't going away, regardless of the success or failure of any single company.

Part of the challenge with PolyAT in the past was also editing the data after the fact. It was not so user friendly.

MPE editing is better today with the per note data attached to the note and more easily viewed and edited.

And yeah, I totally agree... MPE is more musically expressive than just PolyAT. Even so, there are a lot more controllers (mostly pad controllers) that support polyphonic aftertouch today than 10 years ago.

[BONES]

It might be all the negative MPE posts you make... and you make a lot of them. You are like the anti-MPE poster-boy on KVR.

Only if you don't live in the real world. I am simply being objective. Yes, I am really only interested in the 5D touch aspect of these devices but that's only because I don't see much value in actual MPE, given what a massive kludge it is. e.g. How would you set up a hardware system with only one MIDI port to use MPE? MPE relies on USB MIDI allowing for multiple simultaneous MIDI streams. Within a classic hardware set-up, MPE would be really hard (and expensive) to set up and use. I came up against this when I was trying to see if we could maybe do our live sets entirely with hardware (which, of course, was a stupid idea, doomed to fail).

The two are not comparable situations at all.

Which is why one is massively successful and the other one won't be. Also a nice way to dodge the Uno Pro example.

MPE is always gonna be somewhat niche.

OK, so now you are agreeing with me. I wish you'd make up your mind.

It is a solid and stable niche which is developing well.

Except that the biggest, best known company in that niche seems to be failing and looking elsewhere to make money. It seems their investors had the same rose coloured glasses on that you do. It's a fad. It will pass. Why is that such a bad thing? You've got your MPE controllers, you'll be OK. I just got my new Touch Block this morning - woot! And who knows, if Roli goes under it might be worth more than I paid for it in a few years - woot, woot!

[pdxindy]

MPE is always gonna be somewhat niche.

OK, so now you are agreeing with me. I wish you'd make up your mind.

I said that right from the start... you're just so blindly ready to go on the attack that you didn't even notice.

[BONES]

No, you started arguing with me when I said "I think it will always have a small, niche market but that's about it."

[pdxindy]

No, you started arguing with me when I said "I think it will always have a small, niche market but that's about it."

I'm disagreeing with you because you are claiming it is dead... when it isn't and it has been growing.

[Kalamata Kid]

Hey Guys,
How about stopping this MPE discussion/argument here and now.
I believe most of us will appreciate it.