Dune 3 vs Sylenth 1 vs Seum for techno/trance

[Norqa]

People usually believe what confirms their existing views...

Yeah Confirmation bias is a hard thing to shake off.

[machine_spirit]

I knew some guys who got their tracks played by Armin, the tracks fully consisting of premade beats and melody loops from samplepacks.

But! Armin played them so who cares how it was made

That's just depressing I'm not allergic to loops or anything but there's definitely something that is lost when you use alot of them. It somewhat skips the craft of making music. Perhaps it doesn't matter to most listeners in the end but it's not satisfying to create either.

[MegaPixel]

I knew some guys who got their tracks played by Armin, the tracks fully consisting of premade beats and melody loops from samplepacks.

But! Armin played them so who cares how it was made

That's just depressing I'm not allergic to loops or anything but there's definitely something that is lost when you use alot of them. It somewhat skips the craft of making music. Perhaps it doesn't matter to most listeners in the end but it's not satisfying to create either.

I agree, back in the 90s I used to collect sample loops but, I was just kid trying to grab beat loops and then mixing sequences/loops together to make either something new (not often) or a remix of a collection of tracks parts I liked. Sample DJ more or less... But even then I knew it was cheating, it wasn't real music creation.

But now I try not to store any sample loops other than drum loops/fills/drops, one shot drums (hats, kicks, 808s etc), atmos, fx, vocal, transitions, world sounds etc. Mostly untouched, bar the drums folder.

If your going to make music and want to re-create something someone else has done, learn how to do it yourself, often when I try to re-creating something I end up with something which takes me in a completely different direction... Not always for the best but I have fun getting there...

Also what I like to do, is remember a track I used to like and then try re-creating parts of it, without giving it a re-listen, go from memory, its never what I remember (unless it's something basic), but you can often end up with something completely unique which can be complete shait or work out quite nice.

So when I get all these free libraries being thrown at me from here there and everywhere I've signed up for the newsletters with my spam email account (WA Production etc etc), I take a download, filter off all the crap, synth/bass loops etc and integrate into my sample library. Then I run DeDupe Guru using scan via file contents over every sample in every folder, if anything gets a 92% or more positive match I delete.

I do the same for the free presets they sometimes throw in, check out our new presets which turn out to be a duplicate of the presets they or someone else sent a few months or even years back.

Bought that 8 for $8 from BlackOctopus a week or so ago ($8 about £5, thought what the hell, there's a vocal atmospheres lib in there which worth $32 lol, might be something useful), 25gb I think it was, then after me deleting the crap and the synth/jazz and other peoples music loops out of it, that pretty much cut it down to about 8gb, and then DeDupe guru shredded it down even further to about 2GB... Got some vocal atmospheres, vocal cuts, world sounds, risers/downers (transitions), fx, etc etc but not much was of use. And they always include the same 50,000 snares, the same 50,000 kicks, the same 50,000 hats (hi/low) etc all the time... And OMFG loops with just a kick/808/clap/or hat, just like wtf...

And worse again, those packs you get where someone has made a track, bounced all the tracks to wav cut it up into bits and stuffed them into folders so you can drag and drop them back into your DAW and say, I've made a track lol...

[recursive one]

Yeah you are right.
Sample packs have a lot to answer for, I must admit to hearing a lot of Zenhiser in current Psy. Their packs are of course top notch but are surely never meant to placed into a track 'as is' and released with a few minor tweaks here and there.

Yep, Zenhiser and also Futurephonic and Function Loops. At some point I started to notice a lot of psy tracks having identical synth loops and I traced some of them to a Futurephonic pack. Even well-known artists aren't shy about that.

I knew some guys who got their tracks played by Armin, the tracks fully consisting of premade beats and melody loops from samplepacks.

But! Armin played them so who cares how it was made

That's just depressing I'm not allergic to loops or anything but there's definitely something that is lost when you use alot of them. It somewhat skips the craft of making music. Perhaps it doesn't matter to most listeners in the end but it's not satisfying to create either.

Well, some enjoy making sounds and melodies, some enjoy listens and likes.

Actually delivering production quality acceptable for a bigname psytrance label takes a hell of a lot of purely technical mixing work, that probably means peope who are focused on honing their mixing skills have much more chancess to succed than people who primarily have arranger/composer/sound-designer mindset. Get yourself some presets and loops and spend hours and days on making a perfectly balanced, clean and punchy mix of these, you have more chances to get signed than if you spend equal amount of time on making your own sounds and melodies but your track doesn't sound as loud and clean as the current commercial stuff. Kinda like that I guess.

I do synthesise most things except the drums from init preset in my own tracks, and when a track get 100 plays and 5 likes I consider it quite a successful track

[PieBerger]

Actually delivering production quality acceptable for a bigname psytrance label takes a hell of a lot of purely technical mixing work, that probably means peope who are focused on honing their mixing skills have much more chancess to succed than people ho primarily have arranger/composer/sound-designer mindset. Get yourself some presets and loops and spend hours and days on making a perfectly balanced, clean and punchy mix of these, you have more chances to get signed than if you spend equal amount of time on making your own sounds and melodies but your track doesn't sound as loud and clean as the current commercial stuff. Kinda like that I guess.

Preach! This is especially true for the bigger labels, but it's possible to releases on smaller, more niche labels with good musical ideas and "good enough" production. I have some releases with smaller, but still well established (for my sub-genre) labels and my production skills are not top-tier, in terms of mixing/sound-quality. My stuff isn't total garbage either (I like to think anyway ) but it falls short, compared to the polished standards of music released on Tip, Nano, Scared Technology, Iboga etc.

[recursive one]

it's possible to releases on smaller, more niche labels with good musical ideas and "good enough" production. I have some releases with smaller, but still well established (for my sub-genre) labels and my production skills are not top-tier, in terms of mixing/sound-quality. My stuff isn't total garbage either (I like to think anyway ) but it falls short, compared to the polished standards of music released on Tip, Nano, Scared Technology, Iboga etc.

Same here, I do release some stuff via a small local psy label, some tracks spread further and make it into compilations/mixes/poscasts, some fall into oblivion. I try to be realistic about my production abilities, probably not the worst but definitely not up there with the very best yet. Trying hard to improve but sometimes go backwards instead and all that.

Anyways, I do enjoy the process a lot and I'm very happy if someone enjoys the result. Maybe I'll reach for a bigger label later when I become confident enough about my stuff.

[Norqa]

Maybe I'll reach for a bigger label later when I become confident enough about my stuff.

The only problem with that is you might not ever make the transition and miss the boat, as for a label deal and stuff like that maybe that is a thing of the past? There's never been a better time in history to publish yourself.

One unusual and possibly useful avenue to consider is offering a track or two to the Unity or Unreal Engine asset store?
All it would take is for one indie game to include your track and suddenly you are very much on the radar assuming the game did well on Steam or Epic.
Best of luck.

[PieBerger]

The only problem with that is you might not ever make the transition and miss the boat, as for a label deal and stuff like that maybe that is a thing of the past? There's never been a better time in history to publish yourself.

Self-publishing doesn't get you on the mailing lists of the big labels and or cosied up with promoters. If you take one look at the lineups for the bigger/regular psytrance parties (even smaller club nights, in the UK at least), it's pretty clear which labels you need to be on to have a chance to play your music (for money or fun). Being signed to an big/established label in your chosen genre still matters. Self-publishing is viable if you already have a following, either from previously being signed to a label who helped to get you places or if you have a YT channel etc with a decent following. My friend has about 30k subscribers on their channel and they broke even on mastering and artwork costs on their last release within 24 hours.

[anoise]

...Get yourself some presets and loops and spend hours and days on making a perfectly balanced, clean and punchy mix of these, you have more chances to get signed than if you spend equal amount of time on making your own sounds and melodies but your track doesn't sound as loud and clean as the current commercial stuff. Kinda like that I guess.

Same kick, bass and FM farts in every track. No melodies, soulless crap. Track/album is forgotten after it has ended. No emotional impact, no value. Shovelware. Psytrance degraded just like mainstream trance did years ago. There are still gem's popping up here and there, but they are rare.

[recursive one]

Maybe I'll reach for a bigger label later when I become confident enough about my stuff.

The only problem with that is you might not ever make the transition and miss the boat, as for a label deal and stuff like that maybe that is a thing of the past? There's never been a better time in history to publish yourself.

One unusual and possibly useful avenue to consider is offering a track or two to the Unity or Unreal Engine asset store?
All it would take is for one indie game to include your track and suddenly you are very much on the radar assuming the game did well on Steam or Epic.
Best of luck.

Thanks for the suggestions! Do games use psytrance for soundtracks?

I'm pretty clueless about promoton anyways, all I know is that the supply is much higher than the demand, so it makes sense to leave the promotion to the people who actually know something about it.

Assuming the content is good enough to be promoted, that's my main concern at the moment TBH

Same kick, bass and FM farts in every track. No melodies, soulless crap. Track/album is forgotten after it has ended. No emotional impact, no value. Shovelware. Psytrance degraded just like mainstream trance did years ago. There are still gem's popping up here and there, but they are rare.

Hard to argue with that At least if you mostly listen to mainstream label offerings.

I guess I may be missing out a lot of actually great music just because the artists making it are more interested in producing quality stuff than promoting it.

[Norqa]

Thanks for the suggestions! Do games use psytrance for soundtracks?

Point taken
But listen to the Subnautica - Full Soundtrack, in fact anyone who has any doubt about how electronic music can work in a game..

A multimillion selling game.



Not that I would say they are pure Psy but in principle it proves Psy can work.

[vurt]

Thanks for the suggestions! Do games use psytrance for soundtracks?

Point taken
But listen to the Subnautica - Full Soundtrack, in fact anyone who has any doubt about how electronic music can work in a game..

A multimillion selling game.



Not that I would say they are pure Psy but in principle it proves Psy can work.

not psy, but the wipeout racing games used electronic dance stuff (not edm) and they were huge!

[recursive one]

But listen to the Subnautica - Full Soundtrack, in fact anyone who has any doubt about how electronic

My son loves this game!

Actually I noticed some cool sounding stuff when he was playing, will give a listen.

[Norqa]

not psy, but the wipeout racing games used electronic dance stuff (not edm) and they were huge!

Yeah the Wipeout high octane soundtracks were super cool.
And throughout history where excellent Electronic music has been produced.
All the way back and even before the C64.

[vurt]

But listen to the Subnautica - Full Soundtrack, in fact anyone who has any doubt about how electronic

My son loves this game!

Actually I noticed some cool sounding stuff when he was playing, will give a listen.

also, what's the worst that can happen?
track doesn't get picked?
you don't lose anything, but, do have a chance of getting "something".

seems like a no brainer to me
if you don't do it, you definitely won't get a track chosen...