Reason 12 announced

[kmonkey]

Why would you not be able to do that anymore?

Terrible spelling error. You definitely can do that now.

Not should probably be "now".

Basically you can now load combinator patches and combinators inside one (new) combinator. That's the feel of it.

edit: perhaps I misunderstood you.

Anyway they are not stripping it down imho. Guys you need to wait and see.

The insert programmers are now removed, but you will be able to load Combinators into the insert sections of mix/audio channels and the Master section like before.

The difference is that where you previously had a Combinator loaded into an insert programmer, you now can find that Combinator directly inside your insert section's container and the automation is carried over directly to the Combinator controls.

Apparently many users didn't even understand or know how to load Combinators into insert sections, and didn't know they had to reveal "show programmer" to access it.

So a little bit of a compromise, but in reality we are definitely getting more.

While we no longer get the few, 4 knobs and buttons from the mixer, we can now have multiple Combinators directly inside the insert sections, which is a ton more macros, but controlled directly from those controls in the rack.

[jens]

Why would you not be able to do that anymore?

Terrible spelling error. You definitely can do that now.

Yes, I assumed it must have had just been badly worded or so, as it did not really make any sense like tha at all...

"you cannot load a combi patch or adjust combi rotaries from the channel strips"

Why would you not be able to tweak the rotaries anymore? - unless they'd completely remove that feature from the mixer-strip, which they did not claim to have done...

[kmonkey]

They just (imho) terribly worded out this. Have in mind that whoever posted this info - Text is from closed beta and people talking there about this aren't exactly a PR guys.

You can still load your previous combinator patches. It's just that your won't see 4 "programmer" buttons on the insert channel slot and tweak them as you could previously (no one actually did that in any Reason video I ever saw since the introduction of Combinator years ago) - they are "inside" new combinator instead.

It is hard to describe but very simple in practice. I guess since you now can load combinator inside combinator you are getting that weird and terrible descriptions and people are communicating about it badly.

You can either trust me when I say this is a step in the right direction and I can see many people toying with this and producing quite amazing results or perhaps it won't be nice to you (i don't believe that).

[antic604]

I am pretty new to Reason, but surely this is an improvement?

Not for me. I never needed that. Whereas I was using the "remote" knobs & buttons available in Mixer page to control my track & master inserts

Why would you not be able to do that anymore?

Because the inserts buttons & knobs are not in the Mixer anymore.

What's left is just a bypass & edit buttons

UZ6Iutd1KBY7CdkHeOQR9g.png

[EnochLight]

I am pretty new to Reason, but surely this is an improvement?

Not for me. I never needed that. Whereas I was using the "remote" knobs & buttons available in Mixer page to control my track & master inserts

Why would you not be able to do that anymore?

Because the inserts buttons & knobs are not in the Mixer anymore.

What's left is just a bypass & edit buttons


UZ6Iutd1KBY7CdkHeOQR9g.png

Been using Reason since version 1, and recording audio in it/mixing since Reason 5+Record introduced the main "SSL-like" mixer. Not being able to load Combi's in chains as an insert has long been a feature request, and if I have to lose those 4 remote knobs (which few people ever used anyway), then I'd say it's a good improvement to Reason's workflow IMHO. Sorry this kills your workflow though - I'm sure there are others that feel that way.

[antic604]

...Sorry this kills your workflow though - I'm sure there are others that feel that way.

It's not the end of the world, but definitely removes one of the features that made Reason special for me... And transport + tool bars still don't scale properly. Soon the cons will start to outweigh the pros

BTW, all this "hard work" and apparently when automating combinator v2 parameters the labels of the knobs/sliders/buttons still don't show in automation lanes.

God, I wish I could sell my REs and simply leave that whole mess behind me. I'm tempted to pretend I misplaced €1k+ somewhere and just forget about all of it.

[SLiC]

I'm sure they will get around to the toolbar (they have said as much) and they have also said VST3 should be done before the end of this year. 12 is just the beginning of a lot of new stuff...Going HD will have taken a lot of Dev time that is now free....

[EnochLight]

BTW, all this "hard work" and apparently when automating combinator v2 parameters the labels of the knobs/sliders/buttons still don't show in automation lanes.

Very likely this will be addressed, not to worry. I still feel that - even in its current form - Combinator 2 is one of the most coolest changes/improvements to come into Reason in a very long time. Time will tell if we see more improvements occur over the 12.x update cycle - but from what it sounds like, this is their intent.

[antic604]

...time will tell if we see more improvements occur over the 12.x update cycle - but from what it sounds like, this is their intent.

Oh, that we definitely will. If you listened to yesterday's Mimic stream, Mattias commented on their new philosophy on iterating on the versions, which one one hand is good because there's a chance that once a device or feature is shipped it's not the end yet and it will still be worked upon and extended (unlike it was in the past). But that also means we will be getting functionalities and devices that aren't complete and - more scary - not really thought through till the end, so some changes they might not be able to reverse to not break compatibility, which might stiffle their ideas moving forward... Like with this current removal of knobs & buttons from the mixer - why do that? Why not leave the (stripped down, perhaps) programmer in and let people map those controls to multiple Combi v2 and/or individual devices in the insert slots? Why add something for one group (that's been demanded for years - true!), but as a consequence remove a unique and useful feature for others?? I won't buy the argument that those features were not compatible. Much more likely they've run out of time and in order to deliver on the promised Combi v2 they've made a shortcut and gutted the DAW. It's going down the drain anyway... I don't care people didn't know they could use it or were confused. I knew and I wasn't. And many others were not, either. Why does my experience have to suffer because someone cannot read the Operational Manual and take advantage of more "complex" concept? Let them use ...Reaper, as it's apparently much more intuitive for real musicians.

And then there's the messaging around release date for v12. First it was a firm date of Sept 1st; then it was broadly "September" and yesterday Ryan - and that's also in the current beta "fix list" page - used the term "early fall" when talking about Combinator v2. Does that mean the v12 on Sept 1st won't be complete and won't include the new Combinator? What about the primised workflow improvements? Is that only the browser and some extra right-click menus in Combi v2?

Also, WTF every beta is a 5GB download now? Can't the f**ing sort this shit out for once?

All of that sounds like an ongoing, constant beta and to be honest I'm not sure I trust them to pull it off...

[SLiC]

Giving a firm date of Sept 1st was a schoolboy error....They are probably under a lot of committal pressure to get the new version out but still....its software, it's ready when it's ready! The Combiner 2 has 'just' been released to beta ( 'alpha'!) so they have a dozen days (assuming they work weekends!). Launching late is better than launching with bugs...first impressions and all that...

[antic604]

Launching late is better than launching with bugs...first impressions and all that...

It's couple of months too late for 1st impressions

Enjoy your honemoon with Reason while you still can

[Nimrod7]

Can I run Reason to open the BlueCat’s patchwork, and open Reason as plugin from patchwork, then open patchwork from Reason as plug-in, then open again patchwork to open another Reason?

[SLiC]

Launching late is better than launching with bugs...first impressions and all that...

It's couple of months too late for 1st impressions

Enjoy your honemoon with Reason while you still can

My first impression was R11 and I was every impressed. I bought it for the promised (HD) Rack, so the sequencer is just a bonus- I also get 12 free so there will be no complaints from me for some time.

To me Reason is a rack of instrument and fx with a built in sequencer-, S1 is my main sequencers, you bring your own instruments and fx. Put Reason rack in S1 (or even Bitwig & Live) and you pretty much have any way of sequencing you want.

Having hear nothing but criticism for the DAW aspects (mainly here!) I personal found it to be really easy to use and more advanced than Bitwig and Lives sequencer in many aspects that actually matter. Obviously it doesn't have the depth of Cubase or S1, but it's a hell of a lot more fun to use...

[EnochLight]

Having hear nothing but criticism for the DAW aspects (mainly here!) I personal found it to be really easy to use and more advanced than Bitwig and Lives sequencer in many aspects that actually matter. Obviously it doesn't have the depth of Cubase or S1, but it's a hell of a lot more fun to use...

This what keeps me in Reason, time and time again. I own Studio One as well, and have dabbled with Cubase. It's always Reason that I find is fun to use, hence making music is fun!

Back in the day, I always took it the wrong way when people (mostly here) claimed Reason was a toy, but now I absolutely agree - and it's one of the funnest toys I own to make music in, which is what counts.

[bangaio]

Just all this - and to be honest once again they have shown how ridiculously far behind the curve they are. The argument is they didn't or weren't able to iteratively iodate things as it had to be fixed and finalised at any time post say 2010 is laughable. Anyone remember the last time the bought Reason or nay other DAW on a disk? I can - Logic 8 probably around 2007 ish?

Now reason+ has freed them form these shackles and they can update devices and the program. Bull-shit!

Once again passing off reason+ as the saviour instead of admitting that + users seem to be glorified beta testers/early release guinea pigs.

...time will tell if we see more improvements occur over the 12.x update cycle - but from what it sounds like, this is their intent.

Oh, that we definitely will. If you listened to yesterday's Mimic stream, Mattias commented on their new philosophy on iterating on the versions, which one one hand is good because there's a chance that once a device or feature is shipped it's not the end yet and it will still be worked upon and extended (unlike it was in the past). But that also means we will be getting functionalities and devices that aren't complete and - more scary - not really thought through till the end, so some changes they might not be able to reverse to not break compatibility, which might stiffle their ideas moving forward... Like with this current removal of knobs & buttons from the mixer - why do that? Why not leave the (stripped down, perhaps) programmer in and let people map those controls to multiple Combi v2 and/or individual devices in the insert slots? Why add something for one group (that's been demanded for years - true!), but as a consequence remove a unique and useful feature for others?? I won't buy the argument that those features were not compatible. Much more likely they've run out of time and in order to deliver on the promised Combi v2 they've made a shortcut and gutted the DAW. It's going down the drain anyway... I don't care people didn't know they could use it or were confused. I knew and I wasn't. And many others were not, either. Why does my experience have to suffer because someone cannot read the Operational Manual and take advantage of more "complex" concept? Let them use ...Reaper, as it's apparently much more intuitive for real musicians.

And then there's the messaging around release date for v12. First it was a firm date of Sept 1st; then it was broadly "September" and yesterday Ryan - and that's also in the current beta "fix list" page - used the term "early fall" when talking about Combinator v2. Does that mean the v12 on Sept 1st won't be complete and won't include the new Combinator? What about the primised workflow improvements? Is that only the browser and some extra right-click menus in Combi v2?

Also, WTF every beta is a 5GB download now? Can't the f**ing sort this shit out for once?

All of that sounds like an ongoing, constant beta and to be honest I'm not sure I trust them to pull it off...