discussion from 101

[vurt]

you know why Abba and Elvis Costello never went on tour? It would be the Abba Costello tour and they couldn't figure out who's on first

could have swapped headliners at each show, like the clash of the titans and rollercoaster tours

[Hink]

I dont know is on third

[vurt]

I dont know is on third

slayer at cott
and mbv at rollercoaster

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Well, the North will just leave the barricades for now. But yeah, this was actually what the 101 was not for. I dig that and comply. My practise and terms will not change from any of it, either way, as long as they enable me to do what I do. If it ain't broken....

[Hink]

Well, the North will just leave the barricades for now. But yeah, this was actually what the 101 was not for. I dig that and comply. My practise and terms will not change from any of it, either way, as long as they enable me to do what I do. If it ain't broken....

but it was something bound to happen and the ceiling didnt come crashing down

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Well, I do not know about about that. The ceiling did not come chrashing down on you, maybe, but
I had to dance between falling pieces here

[vurt]

Well, the North will just leave the barricades for now. But yeah, this was actually what the 101 was not for. I dig that and comply. My practise and terms will not change from any of it, either way, as long as they enable me to do what I do. If it ain't broken....

but it was something bound to happen and the ceiling didnt come crashing down

nearly did when mbv were on

[jancivil]

Since my terms rely heavily on species counterpoint, I am the only one concerned.

not far from the truth, one supposes

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Yeah. You know my sources, Jan In this case, I actually imply a section in Gradus where Joseph asks Aloy why he cannot just solve a problem by flattening a note in a voice, and Aloys says that he would transpose outside the mode then, and first he has to learn to write within them. That a root refers to tonic of a mode is trivial too in this system. However these simplicities are understood, misunderstood , deconstructed and whatnot in modern or postmodern terms, this training works for me. I have never hidden the fact that I stick to my Fux and Jeppesen for the voice leading I care about and dump the rest. I am ancient and ignorant. You go where you like, I stay with what works for me. All is good as far as I can see.

[fmr]

Also the strong objection to scalar talking about a mode is way over-the-top afaic, and disagrees with a basic definition.
of or relating to a musical scale. and the proof of that concept is once upon a time there was an earlier concept, the hexachord (which no one uses outside that era except as an historical academic reference)?

I don't know where did you pick that definition from, but see it says: "of or relating to a musical scale". It is NOT a scale. Here is what Britannica says:

"mode, in music, any of several ways of ordering the notes of a scale according to the intervals they form with the tonic, thus providing a theoretical framework for the melody. A mode is the vocabulary of a melody; it specifies which notes can be used and indicates which have special importance. Of these, there are two principal notes: the final, on which the melody ends, and the dominant, which is the secondary centre."

As you see, they don't say it is a "scale" (because it isn't), nor did they mention "scale", except to say that the mode is a way of ordering the nots of a scale (hence, it is NOT the scale).

I also object to the use of "scale" because, if one play, let's say, the mode of E as a scale from E to E, our ears would probably catch that as C Major. To have the mode of E, we would need to firmly establish the polar centers of the mode, and that will not happen by playing a "scale". We are too conditioned by more than 200 years of tonal language.

[jancivil]

as I see, there is a 'they', a dictionary which I'm supposed to take as authoritative in your cherry-picked copy and paste there.

and that in no way shows 'it is not a scale', omission is not commission.

I took that verbatim from a dictionary btfw. In everyday language, you say 'scalar' you're referring to some form of scale. FFS. What are you on? What a bizarre encounter.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

It is time we sort this out at true 101 level:

MODES
Once upon a time, there were some smart guys who thought it could be a great idea to start playing the white keys on a piano. So they did for hundreds of years. One day an even smarter guy asked "why the flying fck do we not play the black ones too?" Then they began to play them too. As long as you play the white keys only, you are using modes (don't ask) and making modal music, and when you use the black ones too, you are making...well...Jazz or something...who gives a fck. And THAT is what modes are. Period.

[fmr]

It is time we sort this out at true 101 level:

MODES
Once upon a time, there were some smart guys who thought it could be a great idea to start playing the white keys on a piano. So they did for hundreds of years. One day an even smarter guy asked "why the flying fck do we not play the black ones too?" Then they began to play them too. As long as you play the white keys only, you are using modes (don't ask) and making modal music, and when you use the black ones too, you are making...well...Jazz or something...who gives a fck. And THAT is what modes are. Period.

Well, this could be the explanation in a Monty Python episode.

I can imagine the picture of a caveman playing a "piano" (made of... stones?) and asking his/her mate: "Why the f*ck can't we play the black/small keys"?

[jancivil]

Look, if there is a scale called natural minor, A B C D E F G and a 'mode' known as "Aeolian", A B C D E F G, both having a central tone of A for its identity, one being totally a scale and the other can never be a scale because... - wait, there is no because, your feint at a because was a statement which doesn't in fact deny a mode's scaleness but merely doesn't affirm it exactly in the words you selected to gainsay* - is flat absurd. This was unexpected, I gotta say.

(*: "mode, in music, any of several ways of ordering the notes of a scale" also does in no way deny it's a scale. It's beyond my imagination how that gets twisted into 'it's not a scale'. It's a way of ordering a scalar set but it's not itself a scale. A metanarrative cannot be a narrative, following this logic. The only scales possible are two of seven sets of seven notes in contiguous order as given because the others - not these two, magically if only because of a label - are just ways of ordering that same set.)
good grief. this is as good as the argument from Guido's hexachord

[jancivil]

OTOH were I to continue on and copy/paste statements in confirmation of my point, I would absolutely be showing statements which affirm it.

no mas, I'm too old for this shit