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[IIRs]

Yes, at least since Sonar2 you can make every window a floating one...

Hm, that's a very nice thing then.
To me those things are pretty much crucial when it comes to efficiency.

Only when you can't avoid dealing with umpteen open windows all the time: Tracktion makes all that redundant anyway..

[LpD]

Thanks mate.
U r right. Small patch works correctly... but that's sad. How small it need to be to reload?
The first one (that evil)weights about 30 mb... that's not to big...
So what about loading ns_kit or some piano/rhodes multilayers?
Which (free) sampler works fine in tracktion? I like ds404 becouse of his self countaining patches.

[valley]

yeah 30Mb is probably a bit hefty.

The method tracktion uses to store archives is kind of cool in that it is a standard xml document, so you can hand edit it if needs be, but xml doesn't lend itself well to storing honking great blocks of raw binary.

the self contained aspect of DS404 is hamdy, but I wish it was optional. It's a pain when I send archives to collab partners, 'cos the DS404 data will be sent each time. Sending a 50MB archive over the internet everytime I make changes to a song gets tiring.

I dunno what to suggest though. There aren't many good freeware samplers, and if your banks are the size of NSKit then DS404 and Tracktion don't work smoothly together.

[jens]

Yes, at least since Sonar2 you can make every window a floating one...

Hm, that's a very nice thing then.
To me those things are pretty much crucial when it comes to efficiency.

Only when you can't avoid dealing with umpteen open windows all the time: Tracktion makes all that redundant anyway..

imo the being-forced-to-do-everything-in-the-same-window-aproach is a rather crappy idea...

[valley]

imo the being-forced-to-do-everything-in-the-same-window-aproach is a rather crappy idea...

really?

It's still my favourite aspect of Tracktion. I deplore windows clutter.

[TheWall]

Thanks mate.
U r right. Small patch works correctly... but that's sad. How small it need to be to reload?
The first one (that evil)weights about 30 mb... that's not to big...
So what about loading ns_kit or some piano/rhodes multilayers?
Which (free) sampler works fine in tracktion? I like ds404 becouse of his self countaining patches.

This has been discussed many times before...
DS404 is the only sampler plugin AFAIK that saves sample content into song file. That's one of several seriously flawed design decisions of DS404. It's really a pity for a otherwise pretty decent sampler.

[haydxn]

mine too... whenever i see screenshots of cubase or whatever with multiple windows open in the same main window... *shudder*

i know most of the time those kind of screens are for promo purposes but it's like seeing a child with limbs and eyes growing out from all kinds of weird places...

i love the way it's all there where you need it. the fact that it's sooo easy to navigate around a project makes the 'need' for multiple windows largely irrelevant (to me of course, i can imagine that different people simply require different things)

i'm as happy as my friend lauren (i don't know any larrys, so i couldn't make an accurate judgement on his personal happiness).

mind you, i don't actually know a lauren. oh, heck i know a lorna. mind you, one of the lauras i know is particularly happy most of the time, so for now we'll refer to her.

[Lunch Money]

I'm quite happy with everything in one screen, and have no 'need' for a second screen, but there ARE ways it could be implemented in a Tracktion-esque way. The imagination wanders.....

Greg

[jens]

imo the being-forced-to-do-everything-in-the-same-window-aproach is a rather crappy idea...

really?

It's still my favourite aspect of Tracktion. I deplore windows clutter.

sorry Valley, but that's completely irrational - argumentatively it has disadvantages but no advantages

B.t.w.: I hate all forms of clutter and that is my problem with the in-track-editing...

Let's see: Within Tracktion you have to double click on a midi-clip and a part of the arrange-screen becomes a midi-editor - becuase it is only a part the editor is very small and you often have to do a lot of scrolling and you often don't see all notes at once (or they are really small) - there's no other option.

Another double-click closes the editor.

With e.g. Sonar you have to double-click and (if you want to) the whole screen becomes a midi-editor.
Much more fits on the screen.

A single-click closes the editor.

So what might be the advantage of Tracktion's aproach?

One argument might be that you see the midi-editor but also your arrangement.

Well, if you want it like this with Sonar then just resize the midi-editor to any size you want and put it where you want it.

If you need different editor-configurations then just save them as layout and open them with shortcuts.

Another argument might be that you can edit several midi-tracks at once.

With Sonar you can define from within the midi-editor which tracks are shown in the same editor.

The notes of the different tracks are shown in the colours of this tracks so they are easily visually distinguishable.


So what exactly is the advantage of 'everything in one window?

[Sascha Franck]

Only when you can't avoid dealing with umpteen open windows all the time: Tracktion makes all that redundant anyway..

imo the being-forced-to-do-everything-in-the-same-window-aproach is a rather crappy idea...

really?

It's still my favourite aspect of Tracktion. I deplore windows clutter.

I don't have cluttered windows at all in Logic.
I usually use two at the same time and *maybe* some small third window along with them (such as a linked mixer strip or so).
My main screensets are:
#1: Mon.1: Arrange, Mon.2: Mixer.
#2: Big mixer on both screens, one monitor dedicated to busses and auxes. A VERY small arrangement floating on top of it to select/mute/unmute parts and navigate through the song.
#3: Mon.1: Maximized Matrix/Key/Piano editor, Mon.2: Arrange to select/mute/unmute parts and some linked mixer to adjust certain things.

These are my main work spaces and I can tell you, they don't look cluttered at all. If you want I'm gonna post a screenshot and you'll instantly believe they don't.

[Sascha Franck]

Actually, no need to doubleclick a part in Logic either, I just select it and the editor is displaying its content. I keep the editor opened all the time.

In fact, the best implementation so far has got to come with SX 3, you can chose between "in place" editing and using a dedicated editor.
But unfortunately (as said allready), SX has other disadvantages regarding window handling.

[Lunch Money]

Sascha,

I'm not saying that T's way is better, because Logic's way looks great; but one thing to keep in mind that's specific to your particular window layout--

In Tracktion, there IS no mixer window. We don't need it. That's practically your whole second monitor made redundant and unnecessary.

Greg

[TheWall]

B.t.w.: I hate all forms of clutter and that is my problem with the in-track-editing...

Com'on Jen, preference cannot be argued. You know it too 'doing everything under one screen' is obviously Jules' main concern, so in earlier versions we could only have one VST window be opened at a time.

That said, the easiest way to please those who hate inline editing may be to have an optional fixed size pianoroll screen - which Tracktion currently misses by a tiny bit.

[jens]

Sascha,

I'm not saying that T's way is better, because Logic's way looks great; but one thing to keep in mind that's specific to your particular window layout--

In Tracktion, there IS no mixer window. We don't need it. That's practically your whole second monitor made redundant and unnecessary.

Greg

another weird misconception - Tracktion is missing the mixer but it doesn't offer something else instead what the big sequencers wouldn't have - what makes you think that e.g. Sonar, Cubase and Logic don't have volume-faders, panning faders, solo/mute buttons and meters on the tracks? (and even much more options)

You don't need their mixers either - it's and option, not a must...

[jens]

B.t.w.: I hate all forms of clutter and that is my problem with the in-track-editing...

Com'on Jen, preference cannot be argued. You know it too 'doing everything under one screen' is obviously Jules' main concern, so in earlier versions we could only have one VST window be opened at a time.

That said, the easiest way to please those who hate inline editing may be to have an optional fixed size pianoroll screen - which Tracktion currently misses by a tiny bit.

yes, of course preference can't be argued - and the more options the better - but the sequencers which are by Tracktion-users often called to have 'window-clutter' and an 'old fashioned hardware-style-mixer' are in fact the sequencers which have much more options that Tracktion and you can configure them to your way of working while Tracktion forces you to work in a certain way.