Yamaha Reface DX vs Korg Opsix

[kritikon]

I am a total convert. I used to really hate them, because the early examples were just terrible keyboards, but since things like the KeyStep, Korg's Minilogue/Monologue and even my Seaboard Block, I find full-size keys to be too much like hard work. The Minilogue/Monologue keys, in particular, are fantastic because they have a bit more length, which makes it easier with the black keys.

Must admit I've not tried Keystep etc, but I should. Yeah, the DX100 really is a shit keyboard as it's so short, but as you mentioned...if the key length is longer, the width is not that important. Maybe fat fingers won't find it easier, but though my gut might be increasing in girth, fortunately my fingers aren't.

At least on dinky keyboards I can play octaves without dislocating my little finger...

[BONES]

That's the big benefit for me, too, as arthritis claims more and more of my finger joints.

[poonna]

TBH I find it odd...FM should be better in VSTi form, a no-brainer, yet the most tempting FM synths (IMO) are all h/w. Should be the other way around.

Have you tried Arturia DX7 V? If Yamaha's FM sounds are more appealing to you than Korg's ones, then the Arturia version might get you there in the VSTi land, probably.

[digitallysane]

TBH I find it odd...FM should be better in VSTi form, a no-brainer, yet the most tempting FM synths (IMO) are all h/w. Should be the other way around.

FM is fundamentally digital and by its nature has this approach of "constructing" sounds.

When done in software, the wish to allow as much control as possible make the experience the most "computer oriented", IMO.

When dealing with something like FM8, I have a very solid feeling that I'm dealing with a piece of software, not an instrument. I don't feel this when tweaking Falcon or Retrologue.

But, surprisingly, nor when tweaking the MODX. Maybe being hardware makes it feel more like an instrument or just the more direct interface, no idea.

That being said, you should try the Tracktion F'em VSTi. People who are into FM are very, very enthusiastic about it. It seems to be the FM8 of 2021.

An interesting talk about it here, with a comparison of it and the EssenceFM hardware FM synth.:


(starts at 1:25, if the direct link doesn't work)
As an observation, for me it's absolutely clear that I'd prefer the interface of that hardware over the VSTi.

And here a long talk about the Essence FM:

[BONES]

FM is fundamentally digital and by its nature

No, it's not. It is something you can easily do with an analogue synth, as long as it has two oscillators and you can modulate one with the other.

[digitallysane]

FM is fundamentally digital and by its nature

No, it's not. It is something you can easily do with an analogue synth, as long as it has two oscillators and you can modulate one with the other.

I was talking about FM in its accepted form as a synthesis approach in itself: multiple operators doing phase modulation to each other in a hierarchical way.
Yes, frequency modulation has been a tool in analogue synths since forever, but it's not what one is thinking of when saying "I want an FM synth".

[BONES]

"Accepted form" by whom? I was using FM long before the DX-7 appeared. How about you call it "algorithmic FM" or something, then you can call it "fundamentally digital".

[digitallysane]

"Accepted form" by whom? I was using FM long before the DX-7 appeared. How about you call it "algorithmic FM" or something, then you can call it "fundamentally digital".

Bless you, then, and how about you take your silly forum fights somewhere else.

[BONES]

Well how about you get your facts straight so I don't have to correct you?

[digitallysane]

Well how about you get your facts straight so I don't have to correct you?

You're the man, you did the important work, now move on.

[poonna]

"Accepted form" by whom? I was using FM long before the DX-7 appeared. How about you call it "algorithmic FM" or something, then you can call it "fundamentally digital".

I believe the context of the discussion (and the thread) here is about digital FM, which is actually a misnomer for phase modulation, an entirely digital process, and very different from real FM in analog domain. I know you already know all that, but I just mention them here again to re-establish the context.

I think when words have more than one meaning, we don't always have to explain them every time we mention them if the context has already been established. We probably don't barge in a conversation and say that coke is illegal when they are talking about soft drinks. IMO, of course, and I apologize if I got any of your intention wrong.

[EnGee]

You must be super rich to duplicate DX7 using analog oscillators! So, unless doing fm between two oscillators, it's not practical to do dx7 algorithms with analog synths. That's why Yamaha used 6 operators (digital oscillators + their envelopes ...etc). Analog is also not stable/accurate while digital is.

[BONES]

I believe the context of the discussion (and the thread) here is about digital FM[//quote]
Context went out the window when he said "fundamentally" because "fundamentally", FM is NOT digital. But it is definitely digital in the context of this thread.

which is actually a misnomer for phase modulation, an entirely digital process, and very different from real FM in analog domain.

It's all phase modulation, analogue or digital, and there are plenty of synths around that call it that (although none come to mind). I have no idea what Yamaha decided to call it FM.

[kritikon]

That being said, you should try the Tracktion F'em VSTi. People who are into FM are very, very enthusiastic about it. It seems to be the FM8 of 2021.

I'll have a look, thanks. I checked out FM8 and just couldn't get along with it. But maybe F'em is better...

[kritikon]

Have you tried Arturia DX7 V? If Yamaha's FM sounds are more appealing to you than Korg's ones, then the Arturia version might get you there in the VSTi land, probably.

I'll check out that one too. Though if it's a straight DX7 port then I'll probably pass. The thing that really attracts me to Opsix is its modulation and fluidity - something DXs weren't that good for IMO.