surge vs paid for synths

[.jon]

Just to voice a different opinion, I find Surge especially easy and rewarding to use. Reading the manual or watching a video will help you get to know how it works. I can see how the UI might appear a bit daunting at first look, but the design rationale is very solid and facilitates easy and fast sculpting of both simple and complex sounds.

[T-CM11]

I've been trying out Surge since a couple of months; and it's becoming one of my favorites (among mostly paid-for plugins).
In my experience, it compares best with Synthmaster and Pigments.
- The interface is easier/'better' than Synthmaster - but not as 'good' as Pigments, which gives a lot more visual feedback.
- Sound: I find it difficult to compare - to me, all 3 sound great. The difference is mostly in their feature sets, especially the oscillator sections.
- Surge uses the least amount of CPU, followed by Synthmaster; Pigments being a CPU gobbler. Surge is very usable on my 2012 i5 studio laptop. Pigments, on the other hand, I can use it to design single sounds... or play a few notes at a time and then freeze the whole performance.
- Surge has the most FX built-in. I wish that every parameter of every effect was modulatable (is that a word?). I don't know why that isn't the case...

Requests:
(humbly, it already has a lot more than I could ever expect from a free plugin)
- Granular OSCs - with drag-n-drop audio, and visual feedback. I expect them to use a lot more CPU when activated - based on my experience with Padshop and Pigments, but maybe I'm wrong (I hope so!).
- Filter FM (unless it's already there and I haven't discovered it yet). Also/and: OSC modulation (as a source).
- (already mentioned) modulation of ALL FX parameters.
- Macro knobs and morphable snapshots (like Alchemy)
- A nice PDF* manual, with links and shortcuts. I know that an online manual is the easiest to keep updated, but to me it feels(!) a bit like a form of DRM. My studio laptop is always-offline.
*offline html is fine too

The above is only based on my short-term experience with this plugin. Feel free to disagree/add/correct me.

[EvilDragon]

A couple of FX parameters are not modulatable because they are hard switches between settings (so it would produce unwanted clicks), or they are integer parameters (whole numbers only, not continuous floating point), and those are also structurally not modulatable yet (it's a feature request we have tracked for quite some time - it's not an easy one to tackle!). ALSO - effects CAN be modulated but only by scene level modulators (so: SLFOs, channel aftertouch, low/high/last key, and a few others), because FX in Surge are not per voice - so voice modulators cannot apply (at least not with the way Surge's modulation system is currently structured).

Filter FM is unlikely unless you want the CPU to go wildly up, plus I am not sure half the Surge filters (mostly older ones) would take on that fast modulation well enough, so I wouldn't place my bets on seeing that one happen. Who knows, though.

Macros we already have, 8 of them! Morphable snapshots is a feature request we already have tracked - it's not in the immediate plans for the next year. But our milestones are not 100% set in stone and things can shift. No promises, though.

PDF manual, I mean you can print the manual site as PDF in any browser these days, or also download the manual as .html and bring it offline


Thanks for the feedback!

[Biome_Digital]

Some FM parameters are not modulatable because they are hard switches between settings (so it would produce unwanted clicks), or they are integer parameters (whole numbers only, not continuous floating point), and those are also structurally not modulatable yet (it's a feature request we have tracked for quite some time - it's not an easy one to tackle!). ALSO - effects CAN be modulated but only by scene level modulators (so: SLFOs, channel aftertouch, low/high/last key, and a few others), because FX in Surge are not per voice - so voice modulators cannot apply (at least not with the way Surge's modulation system is currently structured).

Filter FM is unlikely unless you want the CPU to go wildly up, plus I am not sure half the Surge filters (mostly older ones) would take on that fast modulation well enough, so I wouldn't place my bets on seeing that one happen. Who knows, though.

Macros we already have, 8 of them! Morphable snapshots is a feature request we already have tracked - it's not in the immediate plans for the next year. But our milestones are not 100% set in stone and things can shift. No promises, though.

PDF manual, I mean you can print the manual site as PDF in any browser these days, or also download the manual as .html and bring it offline


Thanks for the feedback!

Filter FM would be great though. How about just for the OB filter?

[EvilDragon]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

[Biome_Digital]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Personally, I don't care about CPU.

[T-CM11]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Just an idea (from a non-dev POV): make it a switch in the settings (activate audio rate modulation). And mark the presets (color/asterix/other - warning: higher cpu usage ) that have it activated / use it.
If you can't use it on all types of filters (like the old ones)... then it would be just like those non-modulatable FX parameters (in practice).

I'm just thinking out loud - move along - nothing to see here - you guys are doing a great job!

[T-CM11]

Personally, I don't care about CPU.

It's still a great "selling point" that differentiates it from "competitors", in general... for now*.

*who cares these days if a plugin from 2002 (for example) was "low-CPU" or not. (if you're still using it of course)

[EvilDragon]

Just an idea (from a non-dev POV): make it a switch in the settings (activate audio rate modulation).

Unfortunately, modulation rate limitation is a compile-time constant and it would be a considerable rework to make it dynamically switchable.

[T-CM11]

Just an idea (from a non-dev POV): make it a switch in the settings (activate audio rate modulation).

Unfortunately, modulation rate limitation is a compile-time constant and it would be a considerable rework to make it dynamically switchable.

But all we want is MORE cake, and eat it TOO

It's the utopia of the instrument that does everything, in the best possible way, for the lowest price. But I can make the music I want, with a lot less than what Surge offers.
It wasn't always like that... around 2000 (and earlier), only using software was a frustrating limitation (for me, and what I wanted to do/make).
Ha, some anti-nostalgia... a rare thing nowadays!

[baconpaul]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Personally, I don't care about CPU.

oh, i have code which could make you care about your CPU.

[baconpaul]

Just an idea (from a non-dev POV): make it a switch in the settings (activate audio rate modulation).

Unfortunately, modulation rate limitation is a compile-time constant and it would be a considerable rework to make it dynamically switchable.

"considerable rework" is polite for 'close to total rewrite'

the control rate / audio rate split is pretty fundamental in the synth. the audio FM pipeline excluded, it's not something that i would recommend trying to change with the surge code base.

[Biome_Digital]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Personally, I don't care about CPU.

oh, i have code which could make you care about your CPU.

I bet! Please don't use it.

[gentleclockdivider]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Imho surge's default filters have always been it's weakest point ,also the reason why I never purchased it back in 2008 .
The surge team did a wonderfull job implementing non-linear filters .
People should be aware off the o.g. vember audio's and the surge team , the latter is miles above the o.g.

[noiseresearch]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Imho surge's default filters have always been it's weakest point ,also the reason why I never purchased it back in 2008 .
The surge team did a wonderfull job implementing non-linear filters .
People should be aware off the o.g. vember audio's and the surge team , the latter is miles above the o.g.

Yeah! I think the filters are the reason I never bought it back then although I always thought the UX/UI was / is very good. That said I still can't get warm with Surge. Every now and then I try it again but in the end I do not end up using it. Maybe SurgeXT clicks more with me, although I'm not sure what the changes will be lol