Reason 12 announced

[SLiC]

Personally I wouldn’t waste my time complaining about something I was not happy with, I just wouldn’t use it, life’s to short to be unhappy with your toys, this is all supposed to be a bit of fun.

[noremorse]

Thing is, all the people making the noise are probably like 20 percent or less of the paying customers (Pareto principle anyone?) Like a quite small vocal group see all the problems and write about it all over the Internet. I see more or less the same 10 names doing all the writing....

Go figures

What kind of delusion is this? Feel free to respond to or produce some actual arguments instead of posting some blatantly false nonsense mixed with smileys. Take this social media influencer rhetoric elsewhere.

If anything there's a large amount of varied criticism from many different posters while EnochLight and SliC basically make up 90% of the defense. And SLiC seems to be some kind of "Let's get excited about products!" bot that never respond to anything. EnochLight's defense is clearly half-hearted and his "they're a corporation and if you want Reason to live on - deal with it" argument is not convincing though it is coherent. Trying to shoot down criticism with this argument is dishonest at best and doesn't do the discourse in general any favors. Not entirely unlike pulling the "everything is subjective" card to paralyze a discussion.

Pretty much every single other DAW and its developer manages to sustain themselves while maintaining a healthy relationship with their customers but for some reason this was impossible for RS and for some reason this is supposed to be acceptable.

Oh wait, Reason isn't a DAW anymore. Sorry, i forgot.

Only one in delusion here is you mate! The pareto principle isn't even close to be related to any kind of social media rhetoric, but if you fail to realise that I'm sorry I can help you out there.

For all daws, games, cars, movies or whatever you pick, there is a small vocal group pretending to know, and talk for the majority... If you fail to realise that mechanism that is on you. People complaining have always, and will go on doing so living in that illusion, and feeding it. This 80/20 principle preceeds all social media.

Your response is just another keyboard warrior trying to justify and claim your view as something that is more valid, more right and speaking for something you really have no claim for.

You're like that worried citizen, feeling butt hurt and taking your own opinions for something that is valid for all but when all it is it is your own needs that aren't satisfied and you feel you have been hurt and badly treated not getting what you want :D:D:D:D (some extra smileys for you to get you even more annoyed)

[aMUSEd]

Pity you can't buy an update while on sale and apply it later like you can with Bitwig

[WatchTheGuitar]

https://youtu.be/dteBUV_coN8

[SLiC]

Pity you can't buy an update while on sale and apply it later like you can with Bitwig

I kinda did…bought R11 on sale (I think it was 40% off) to get R12 free!
RS don’t seem shy with sales so hopefully there will be something for upgrades…upgrades (for most DAWS) always seem disproportionately expensive compared to buying new (especially in a sale).

[EnochLight]

Oh wait, Reason isn't a DAW anymore. Sorry, i forgot.

Meh.. call it what you want. These sort of threads can be found on virtually every DAW’s discussion pages. Users rage, users praise, and users make whatever arguments they feel makes the most sense, “half hearted” or not. This thread isn’t unique one bit.

[machine_spirit]

Personally I wouldn’t waste my time complaining about something I was not happy with, I just wouldn’t use it, life’s to short to be unhappy with your toys, this is all supposed to be a bit of fun.

Constructive criticism is not complaining nor wasted time. I made my stance clear a bunch of pages back (something you didn't respond to). You should probably have bought another plugin without the burden of a developer who shat on their userbase if criticism and complaints bothers you so much. Then again, this has been going on for a while now so much or perhaps the majority of the previous core userbase have moved on elsewhere already so you might eventually get your utopia if RS continues on the same path.

If you fail to realise that mechanism that is on you.

Stop posturing/throwing pies and provide something of substance that it's actually possible to respond to. If you truly believe you've made some kind of point... Sad wouldn't even begin to describe it.

Meh.. call it what you want. These sort of threads can be found on virtually every DAW’s discussion pages. Users rage, users praise, and users make whatever arguments they feel makes the most sense, “half hearted” or not. This thread isn’t unique one bit.

I struggle to believe that you honestly don't see the difference between what happened to Propellerhead/Reason, and the typical frustration that surrounds every DAW. Complaints and criticism regarding some missing feature or bugs etc = Complaints and criticism regarding the DAW being turned into a subscription plugin in the most cynical manner possible? No, just no.

I don't mind people hoping that RS will come around and prove themselves reliable, i still do too on some level. But when things sink to the level it did with "noremorse"s post that i initially responded to, someone needs to step in. People deserve to know what they're spending their money on, not get caught up in some marketing nonsense, falsehoods and the hopes of people that feel too invested to move on.

[THE INTRANCER]

Knowing Propellerheads, they will make the Rack free and have people subscribe to use RE's.

[jens]

Trust me - as a Reason DAW user I absolutely feel more enhancements to the core DAW should have occurred over 11’s life, but I never thought of them as greedy. It’s business 101. They need to make things that generate revenue if we’re going to keep seeing Reason 12, 13, 14, etc. This also explains building Reason+ and Companion, I suppose.

nah - I paid enough for the upgrade from 10 to 11 to feel suitably entitled to get more for what I paid than they ended up giving me (I certainly don't need free synths though). If I compare that to what any upgrade for Studio One gets me, the amount of stuff V11 brought to the table is a joke... and the Presonus staff needs to eat too, no?

The question bares being asked: why did you buy an upgrade of Reason thinking you would be given more than what the upgrade offered you at the time? Comparing different software companies is a horribly misguided approach (as you yourself discovered).

Are you seriously asking that question or are you just looking to stirr the pot? If you are serious then I don't know what to say.... as the obvious fact is that full version upgrades always include several free point updates - that goes for most vendors and it certainly goes for Propellerheads too- and that it is done like this is not the choice of the customer but the choice of the vendor. And as such free point upgrades are actually part of the product they are selling the customer with the upgrade.
It obviously is rather oblique and vague for the customer, but again this is their choice of doing business, not ours. I certainly would prefer to have the choice whether to pay or not with each update that includes new features but to then pay smaller fees. (Steinberg goes in that direction with paid 0.5 upgrades, but imo simply ask to much as the 0.5 fee is added on top of a subtantial .0 upgrade so they are even more shitty - but then again that'S Steinberg for you, right? They were always a crappy company to begin with.)
Anyway: serious question on your behalf? f**king weird question in the face of reality either way!

Dismissed - next!

[EnochLight]

Anyway: serious question on your behalf? f**king weird question in the face of reality either way!

Dismissed - next!

Of course it’s a serious f**ing question - I’ve never considered that people actually buy upgrades on the hopes that they’ll get “more” features after the fact. . Myself, I’ve only ever bought an upgrade on the merits of what I got at that time. But you do you, man. No need to “dismiss” anything.

[jens]

Well, then you've been doing it wrong all the time and you learned something new - good for you.

[SLiC]

Personally I wouldn’t waste my time complaining about something I was not happy with, I just wouldn’t use it, life’s to short to be unhappy with your toys, this is all supposed to be a bit of fun.

Constructive criticism is not complaining nor wasted time. I made my stance clear a bunch of pages back (something you didn't respond to).

Your 'stance' is irrelevant to me, why would I care what you think?

[EnochLight]

Well, then you've been doing it wrong all the time and you learned something new - good for you.

Am I? You’re the one who’s clearly disappointed in what you got for your purchase. Maybe revisit your approach in the future.

[antic604]

...I’ve never considered that people actually buy upgrades on the hopes that they’ll get “more” features after the fact. . Myself, I’ve only ever bought an upgrade on the merits of what I got at that time. But you do you, man. No need to “dismiss” anything.

I envy you. I mean it seriously

If I like something and the direction I see it develops in aligns with my interests & needs then I'm willing to give the dev the benefit of the doubt and extrapolate into the future, thus I'm quicker to buy an upgrade or - in Bitwig's case - even buy the upgrade if my support plan isn't even due yet. I just want to support them, show my appreciation and trust. Obviously that lowers the threshold to being disspointed quite dramatically

And that was my story with Reason, basically. After having my 1st taste of DAWs with Live in early 2017 I tried Reason by the end of that year and was stunned by how different it was but also how much better it was fitting my needs, how intuitive the workflow was! With 10-10.3 they've been heavily investing in the DAW (rewrite of VST & RE engine, new stuff in RE API) and were adding actual DAW featues. So I dove in the world of Props' and 3rd party REs and got even more hooked, as they had lots of advantages over VSTs (one place to install & update from, awesome rack integration & versatility, sandboxing, etc.). Imagine my shock with 11-11.3 versions, that basically neglected the DAW and even worse - made it irrelevant by transplanting the rack to other DAWs...

Perhaps had I started with Reason 6 or 8 maybe I'd see it coming, but I came in at 10.x which - in hindsight - looks like a brief period of Reason rejuvenation.

[machine_spirit]

To clarify something, if it wasn't obvious to someone - What "noremorse" did was pretty much piss on all the people who've spent time and energy posting proper critique of RS and their way of handling things, by calling them nothing but the typical vocal minority with a pathethic arrogant blanket statement based on an observation of a pattern he read about on wikipedia, something he backed up with absolutely nothing. When i called him out on it, he lashed out in a ridiculous manner.

Your 'stance' is irrelevant to me, why would I care what you think?

I'm not sure why you're posting online if you're only going to talk to yourself.

as the obvious fact is that full version upgrades always include several free point updates - that goes for most vendors and it certainly goes for Propellerheads too- and that it is done like this is not the choice of the customer but the choice of the vendor. And as such free point upgrades are actually part of the product they are selling the customer with the upgrade.
It obviously is rather oblique and vague for the customer, but again this is their choice of doing business, not ours.

The Reason 11-12 update window was undeniably poor value. They would need to let Reason 11 users upgrade to 12 for 20€ or something to balance it out, certainly with all the other nonsense going on. Not that it would solve things but it would be something, which is more than nothing.