Roli: Equator 2 is here !

[Amberience]

I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future.

Would you happen to have any (informal semi-) inside knowledge on what the future may hold for Geist 2, and could at least share a "don´t worry" or "if I was you and had 100 Logic projects with Geist 2, I´d consider not adding that plugin to project 101"?

I don't have anything concrete I'm afraid. I'd love to say positive things, but I just can't - I wouldn't want it to turn out to be lies.

Geist2 is an annoying situation for me. I wasn't the product owner on it, but I was involved in helping design parts of it and speccing up some features with the developer. So I'm very fond of it and from a personal perspective, watching it wither away is pretty sad. That's not any of the FXpansion crew's fault btw. I'll stick my neck out that far.

[epiphaneia]

I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future.

Would you happen to have any (informal semi-) inside knowledge on what the future may hold for Geist 2, and could at least share a "don´t worry" or "if I was you and had 100 Logic projects with Geist 2, I´d consider not adding that plugin to project 101"?

I don't have anything concrete I'm afraid. I'd love to say positive things, but I just can't - I wouldn't want it to turn out to be lies.

Geist2 is an annoying situation for me. I wasn't the product owner on it, but I was involved in helping design parts of it and speccing up some features with the developer. So I'm very fond of it and from a personal perspective, watching it wither away is pretty sad. That's not any of the FXpansion crew's fault btw. I'll stick my neck out that far.

What a shame indeed.. not only is it the backbone of many of my old projects, but it´s still got so much more potential (throw out 50% of the features, focus on the core functionality + speed + de-clutter the GUI = magic, I never managed to work as fast with Maschine as I could with Geist 2...). Maybe InMusic can step in once more...

[plexuss]

Pity…I wanted Roli keyboards from the beginning. They will stop hardware manufacturing, so, even if indestructible, we can’t find any repair parts in the future. Also, this means no drivers for future esoteric macOS, no scripts for DAWs, and no support.

Do Roli keyboards need drivers on macOS? I mean, can I use it with current DAW scripts for years?

As long as you dont update your OS and other associated software, sure. I have a Seaboard 49 and Block and am on a 2010 mac pro with macPOS 10.13 and Reaper 6. I am ok with only doing updates to my system that wont break everything (eg. plugin updates). I might at some point get a Metal compatible video card so I can move to 10.14.

I am not sure if the Seaboard can work without the Roli software. I am sure it would work for regular midi but I am not sure for MPE. the software control panel has a fucntion to switch to MPE but I am not really sure what's is doing. I have a feeling that the software is needed for MPE use because why would it be part of the workflow Roli prescribes. Eventually I will try the Seaboard without the control software and see what it does.

For me the only way to keep my current set up operational is accept that I am not going to be able to jump on every software update in the future. In some ways "locking" the sytem down as a dedicated music computer would be fine with me. Yes I wouldn't be able to enjoy the latest and greatest products, but then I wouldn't have to spend the $1000's necessary to run those products.

I wonder how many Seaboards are out there and if someone will release software to make use of them with MPE if/when the Roli software no longer functions?

[ehdyn]

The seaboard will function without a computer for MPE.. but there's no way to adjust modes or response curves etc.. and I'm not sure if it will remain in whatever mode you leave it in indefinitely.

[jancivil]

Do Roli keyboards need drivers on macOS?

the Seaboard does not

[Ou_Tis]

I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future. I don't think that ROLI can afford to keep making blocks or Seaboard. They still owe a ton of cash to their creditors and suppliers. They burned through money chasing a x10 valuation pipedream; it was never going to happen. You actually need to have customers for that to happen.

Hopefully if that happens some other company will be willing to buy the rights and produce them (Roli / Lumiwhatever would certainly try to sell them).

For now from what I read they plan to relaunch Seaboard production sometime in 2022.

But my first Seaboard Block has proven far from indestructible... in addition to the silicon coming off on some of the keys when I slide, the specific areas on the keys where I've been pressing the most now barely respond at all (though other regions of the same keys work fine). That could have been after I tried imitating Roli's Grimes interview video where she plays the Seaboard with her knuckle---easier to press that way, but that could be what f**ked it up. I kept getting arm cramps and reinjuring my wrist until I finally decided to just adjust the pressure in Dashboard. I was practicing for hours a day for a few years though.

I only have one other Seaboard Block, so I'm wondering whether I should try to buy a new one on eBay or wait for the relaunch---IDK whether there's any chance of it being improved at all, deals, etc.

Relative to most other keyboards Lumi has the advantage of per key pitch bend. If they add Slide I might consider getting one.

Apparently all of Roli's employees are being kept on and transferred to the new Lumi-focused beginner-oriented company. Wonder how that affects the people who worked on Equator2?... Major updates seem unlikely? *Still* haven't gotten that f**king "choose where content is stored" feature so I don't need to waste 7 gigabytes of primary SSD space. (Of course that's nothing compared with the thousands of hours I wasted practicing the Seaboard Block as my first serious instrument....)

Would be cool if they added LED to top or bottom of Seaboard Block to use Lumi software with it. I'd pay extra for that. Or even if they just made an LED block that could connect to the top of the Seaboard Block.

[Examigan]

I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future. I don't think that ROLI can afford to keep making blocks or Seaboard. They still owe a ton of cash to their creditors and suppliers. They burned through money chasing a x10 valuation pipedream; it was never going to happen. You actually need to have customers for that to happen.

Apparently all of Roli's employees are being kept on and transferred to the new Lumi-focused beginner-oriented company.

I don't think Angus will be going there.

[trackbout]

I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future. I don't think that ROLI can afford to keep making blocks or Seaboard. They still owe a ton of cash to their creditors and suppliers. They burned through money chasing a x10 valuation pipedream; it was never going to happen. You actually need to have customers for that to happen.

Let's say you spend 5+ years treating your suppliers like creditors. Even if you had the money... would you expect your suppliers to care about having your business? I wouldn't.

This repo popped up in my GitHub feed yesterday because I follow Jules (the original author of JUCE) and he starred it. Notes from a ROLI employee that do not paint a very flattering picture of the CEO and seem to line up with your take: https://github.com/ArnoldBalm/ROLI/tree ... m-meetings

Edit:
Ha! I just realized Arnold Balm is an anagram for Roland Lamb, so obviously whoever wrote this wishes to remain anonymous.

[Ou_Tis]

I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future. I don't think that ROLI can afford to keep making blocks or Seaboard. They still owe a ton of cash to their creditors and suppliers. They burned through money chasing a x10 valuation pipedream; it was never going to happen. You actually need to have customers for that to happen.

Apparently all of Roli's employees are being kept on and transferred to the new Lumi-focused beginner-oriented company.

I don't think Angus will be going there.

He left FXpansion to become CTO for Image-Line (FL Studio).

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/angusfx

[BONES]

Pro's aren't going to buy a light up keyboard based on design alone (esp. when the design looks cheap and tacky) and as a controller it doesn't have the feature set or build quality to entice them.

I've been trying to buy a Lumi since it launched. I don't think it "looks cheap and tacky". Quite the opposite, I think it looks awesome. You don't have to use the lights at all, although I'd want to at least try out a custom light scheme. And, AFAIK, it works within the Blocks ecosystem, so you can add whatever features you want to it. I want one to attach to my Seaboard Block, so I can have two octaves of squishy keys and two octaves of normal keys.

- Amateurs aren't going to hang around for year-on-year to subscribe to their learning platform. They'll do a year at most, then give up, like most people who attempt to become musicians do.

So what? All Roli/Luminary will care about is that they buy the hardware. The subscription isn't what's going to keep them afloat, it's hardware sales.

You can't learn to play piano on a 2 octave keyboard.

Of course you can. I did. But for beginners, you have to look at it more like like those Playstation games, like Rock Star. I reckon plenty of people will just do it for the fun of playing along with their favourite songs. You wouldn't need to be serious about learning piano to see value in it and it is clearly targeted and dumbass Mac users who don't worry about price.

For me the only way to keep my current set up operational is accept that I am not going to be able to jump on every software update in the future. In some ways "locking" the sytem down as a dedicated music computer would be fine with me. Yes I wouldn't be able to enjoy the latest and greatest products, but then I wouldn't have to spend the $1000's necessary to run those products.

I wonder how many Seaboards are out there and if someone will release software to make use of them with MPE if/when the Roli software no longer functions?

Fortunately, that is only a problem for those stupid enough to use a Mac. Honestly, if the quote above isn't enough to put anyone off using a Mac, I don't know what is.

Hopefully if that happens some other company will be willing to buy the rights and produce them (Roli / Lumiwhatever would certainly try to sell them).

Right, because who wouldn't want to invest in a failed product line? If the new Roli doesn't keep manufacturing going, nobody else is going to be stupid enough to take it on.

But my first Seaboard Block has proven far from indestructible...

Mine has been great. I thought I had a problem with it a few months ago but after Roli suggested I do a full reset on it, it's back to normal. The biggest complaint I have is that the black paint is coming off the power switch, which is hardly an actual problem. I also have one misbehaving LED on one of my Lightpads. It still works, it's just sometimes a different colour to the pixels around it. Again, not a big concern and it hasn't got any worse in the last few months.

[Amberience]

So what? All Roli/Luminary will care about is that they buy the hardware. The subscription isn't what's going to keep them afloat, it's hardware sales.

I don't think this is true.

In the crazy land of venture capital (yay! let's spend other people's money!!!) if you've got a healthy subscription userbase, you can get a x10 valuation on your company. Which is great if you wanna prepack it all together and flog it off to the highest bidder.

ROLI can't afford to make hardware. It aint happening.

[Ou_Tis]

Hopefully if that happens some other company will be willing to buy the rights and produce them (Roli / Lumiwhatever would certainly try to sell them).

Right, because who wouldn't want to invest in a failed product line? If the new Roli doesn't keep manufacturing going, nobody else is going to be stupid enough to take it on.

Roli borrowed shit tons of money for things like celebrity endorsements in an attempt to get the "hypergrowth" their venture capital backers want. Without the debt and without wasting more money on celebrities simply producing Seaboards might be profitable?...

[pdxindy]

Roli borrowed shit tons of money for things like celebrity endorsements in an attempt to get the "hypergrowth" their venture capital backers want. Without the debt and without wasting more money on celebrities simply producing Seaboards might be profitable?...

The behavior of the company has given me the impression they might disappear or just drop old products in favor of something that might make more money. Trust has been at low ebb for years. That is a major reason why I never bought a Rise even though I was interested.

The thing is, they still have the debt. If they do start producing the Rise again next year, I would wait for a while to see how it plays out before considering to buy it. I would need to see a new attitude, not the same one repackaged under a new name.

[BONES]

In the crazy land of venture capital (yay! let's spend other people's money!!!) if you've got a healthy subscription userbase, you can get a x10 valuation on your company.

But it's not that kind of subscription. You get all the software for free, the subscription covers extra content, which Roli have to provide on a regular basis. It's like a magazine or newspaper subscription. If you stop paying, everything you have keeps working, you just don't get next month's content.

The behavior of the company has given me the impression they might disappear or just drop old products in favor of something that might make more money.

If that were true, don't you think they'd have dropped the Seaboards and Blocks, instead of a) showing them as out of stock for a year and b) putting out a significant update to Equator plus two new Blocks bundles (Studio Editions)?

That is a major reason why I never bought a Rise even though I was interested. The thing is, they still have the debt. If they do start producing the Rise again next year, I would wait for a while to see how it plays out before considering to buy it.

Why? The f**king thing works now, who cares if the company isn't around tomorrow? You're missing out for the stupidest reason imaginable. I'd be way more worried about a Linnstrument - a one man operation that relies on a third party for all manufacturing. What happens if the manufacturer decides it's more hassle than it's worth or if they get a better offer to make something else? Too many possible points of failure in that chain.

The way I read it is that the Seaboards are what matter to Roland Lamb and Lumi is a way to make the company profitable and keep his investors happy, so he can keep selling the things he really loves. If all he wanted to do was make lots of money, there are much easier ways to go about it.

[gaggle of hermits]

well that’s me convinced. I’m moving to bones’s parallel universe where roland lamb isn’t an ego-driven buffoon and those other things are true.