KVR Audio

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:31 am

Abiah wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:07 am
Logic and Bitwig feel the least uncluttered across these different dimensions, to me.

I think its difficult to fault Logic, other than its only available on the Mac. Bitwig is garish, and looks very cluttered, I prefer the calmness of Live.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:59 pm

dellboy wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:58 amMicrosoft windows is cluttered because it is built on decades of old code. Cubase is cluttered for the same reason. Although in both cases the outward GUI does not reflect this.

OK, so this is a language thing. "Cluttered" is entirely about what's visible. If I put 20 things that were lying around into a drawer, my room is no longer cluttered. All the stuff is still there in the room, it's just not clutter any more, because I can't see it.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:47 pm

BONES wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:59 pm
dellboy wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:58 amMicrosoft windows is cluttered because it is built on decades of old code. Cubase is cluttered for the same reason. Although in both cases the outward GUI does not reflect this.
OK, so this is a language thing. "Cluttered" is entirely about what's visible. If I put 20 things that were lying around into a drawer, my room is no longer cluttered. All the stuff is still there in the room, it's just not clutter any more, because I can't see it.

I also have a junk room. And the attic. And the garage. But visitors see a nice tidy clean house. Freedom for me would be to get rid of all this stuff. I am a clutterer, its a disease. So what right do I have to talk about cluttered DAWs ?

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:03 am

Try living on a 31' yacht.

stargate · Post by **stargate** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:18 am

This is why your DAW is cluttered:

Users: The mainstream DAWs are all cluttered!
Also users: won't consider using anything other than cluttered mainstream DAWs

Users: The mainstream DAWs are all cluttered!
Somebody, anybody: Develops a DAW that is not cluttered
Users: I don't see 1000 buttons crammed into a single window that closely resembles Cubase, I will assume this software lacks the basic functionality required to make music because I don't know how to use it, and I refuse to waste my time trying to learn it

Mainstream DAW developer: Develops cluttered DAW
Also mainstream DAW developer: Unclutters their DAW in the next major upgrade
Users: I feel like I barely know you anymore, I don't like the new update, I'm spending my upgrade budget buying a competing mainstream DAW that looks like the others
Also mainstream DAW developer: Goes out of business

Mainstream DAW developer: Develops cluttered DAW
Also mainstream DAW developer: Makes a lot of money developing cluttered DAW that looks like all of the other profitable, cluttered DAWs
Also mainstream DAW developer: Has no reason not to develop a cluttered DAW

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:48 am

stargate wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:18 amUsers: I don't see 1000 buttons crammed into a single window that closely resembles Cubase, I will assume this software lacks the basic functionality required to make music

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:41 pm

KVR Peanut Gallery: straw man arguments rule ok

ozinga · Post by **ozinga** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:02 pm

I vote for Logic.
It feels like there is not much on screen but in reality there is a ton yet nothing is jumping at your face. Calm and out of the way.

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:17 am

BONES wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:47 pm Thin borders? Borders on what? I'm looking at it right now and I can't see any borders on anything. And monochrome tool icons is the very definition of uncluttered.

If you open everything on any DAW it's going to look cluttered. Conversely, you can make most of them look uncluttered if you close everything.

Live minimal.jpg

Yeah, and can't see S1's borders--exactly. Everything is too close together, physically and contrast wise. Monochrome icon equals uncluttered?

That said, cluttered is perhaps not the correct word for what I find Studio One to be. Poorly delineated and busy. Look at its transport bar, then Live's. As I said, it takes longer with it for my eye to settle on what I'm looking for than with any other DAW. Just my experience. It's why I quit using it after two years.

In the end, it's just a matter of preference and taste. Oh, and you can scale Live, which makes a huge difference. At least to me.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:50 am

I'd suggest that's an issue with your screen or the enviro0nment in which you are working. I could easily manage Studio One with less contrast than it has now but my workspace is set up for my graphics work, which sort of follows a SMPTE standard for working with colour. It' s a bit darker than neutral with as much low contrast as possible.

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:53 am

jancivil wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:41 pmKVR Peanut Gallery: straw man arguments rule ok

Totally.
Just enough truth to be funny!

vitocorleone123 · Post by **vitocorleone123** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:15 am

Tracktion Waveform.

Abiah · Post by **Abiah** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:27 pm

jonljacobi wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:17 am

BONES wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:50 am I'd suggest that's an issue with your screen or the enviro0nment in which you are working.

i left studio one entirely for the exactly reasons jonljacobi gave. After a couple of years of struggling and tweaking the settings, I just accepted that it felt like a UI mess to me and jumped ship. Live has a lot of UI/UX issues but it was peaceful to work in, compared to the visual headache S1 gave me. I also found it a boring environment to work in.

Someone said all apps are functional tools. Its a bad take. Apps have character, opinions & energy encapsulated within, they reflect the cultures of the people who make them. There's subjective but valid reasons why one might inspire you, while another might feel like it antagonizes you somehow. It's interpersonal, between your proclivities and those of the people who made it.

dellboy wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:31 am Bitwig is garish, and looks very cluttered, I prefer the calmness of Live.

Initially I had the same reaction, and avoided Bitwig for years because of that. But i started demo'ing again recently, and while I have same thoughts about its some of its visual aesthetics, the actual UX, the window management, workflows and use of space is so much more comfortable. it feels like you can always find what your looking for super quick. Its free of subtle lurking jankyness of Live, that sense of old technical debt, it feels both more solid and clean. I mean when in motion in your hands, when in actually use, rather than in screen grabs.
Can't fully vouch for it yet but its been a promising start.

oneway · Post by **oneway** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:43 pm

All the mainstream DAWs basically look fine.

Artie Fichelle · Post by **Artie Fichelle** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:34 pm

I have:
Logic
Cubase
Studio One
Bitwig
Reaper
Reason
Ardour
Live
FL Studio
Enough?
All the latest versions, except Reason (11 at the time).
Logic was my main DAW since the beginning (C-Lab).
The most uncluttered is Reaper. You can do alot, but steep learning curve. Reaper is no fun.
Studio One ist straight forward, if you know what you want.
Cubase and Logic can do everything (almost).
Bitwig is fun. And the microtuning!!!
Reason is also fun.
Live ( I never used it, so I cannot tell).
FL Studio: The Piano Roll.
I have replaced my band since 1984 (I should not have done, because machines are not so much fun).
Ardour, Hm?

Which DAW Has The Most Uncluttered Interface ?