ROLI's writing on the wall happened

[BONES]

I read every word, why? You said some stupid things, I called you on it. You made a baseless assumption about someone you don't know and have never met. If you had figures for NI's keyboard sales, I'm sure you'd have shared them. But you don't, you made another baseless assumption (or a poor guess). And your points about learning to play were patently absurd. What did I miss here?

[gaggle of hermits]

I read every word, why? You said some stupid things, I called you on it. You made a baseless assumption about someone you don't know and have never met. If you had figures for NI's keyboard sales, I'm sure you'd have shared them. But you don't, you made another baseless assumption (or a poor guess). And your points about learning to play were patently absurd. What did I miss here?

why are you going on about ni sales? What i wrote: "the keybed in the ni keyboards sells far more widely"

do you think fatar don't ship many units?

and i honestly don't know how you worked lamb, blocks and seaboards into the point about light-up keys. the only one with the light-up keys is the lumi. and i didn't mention lamb.

and your "rebuttal" about the learning to play point, which you also didn't get, consisted of your typically solipsistic "i don't do this therefore it doesn't happen ever".

it's a mystery to me why anyone here ever engages with you.

[BONES]

It reads like you think Native Instruments ship more keyboards than anyone. If you meant Fatar, why the f**k didn't you say "Fatar"? They make keybeds for loads of companies, not just NI.

As for your ridiculous statement about learning, what I said was that I didn't need to learn any of that, yet I can play keyboards just fine. That's all it takes to make your statement incorrect. If you'd like, we could take a poll on how many people here have any formal training and you'd see that there are a shit-tonne more than just me. But I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else.

[BONES]

For anyone who thinks that Lumi keys is a useless, over-priced toy, I'd recommend you watch this (it's only 1.5 minutes) -



You can see that Lumi is a really good match for the still forthcoming Osmose. They both have 4 dimensions of touch and are fully MPE compatible. However, for the price of 1 x Osmose, you could buy 6 x Lumi Keys, which would give you twice as many keys. More sensibly, you could buy a couple of Lumi Keys, a Lightpad Block and a couple of Control Blocks and have almost enough left over to buy a Seaboard Block, too. Yes, Osmose comes with a synth built in but if you have a Smartphone, then you can make music with Lumi, too. Ultimately, Lumi seems like a really cheap way into MPE and a great alternative to those who don't like Seaboards.

[gaggle of hermits]

It reads like you think Native Instruments ship more keyboards than anyone. If you meant Fatar, why the f**k didn't you say "Fatar"? They make keybeds for loads of companies, not just NI.

y'know, i'm pretty sure someone made that point earlier. can't think who that was.

all you're doing with the rest of your response is demonstrating that you don't pay a blind bit of attention to anything anyone else writes here. what's even better is that you've also come to the conclusion that roli/luminary's stated strategy will not succeed by different means but still insist on arguing the toss over it.

[Ploki]

i absolutely agree with bones here, Osmose is so f**king expensive for basically a keyboard with MPE slapped over it. I don't see it's appeal over Lumi for f**k-off-times the price.
I don't care if it has a literally software synth engine, it's 2021 - give me a plugin and iOS app and i'm good.

and you'd think the top black bar is touch-sensitive and playable to give you at least some form of continuous surface like seaboard/linnstrument - but no, it's just redundant.
I really don't see what's the point of osmose.

also the insanely long wait for it isn't really reassuring...

[pinki]

Clearly you’ve used one so it’s great to hear that hands on review.

Expresivee make musical instruments but you carry on ios …

(about the Lumi I know not because I have not used one)

also the insanely long wait for it isn't really reassuring...
er... the word pandemic mean anything to you?

[Ploki]

So which part makes it 2000€?
The software which is well, a synth, you can get as plugin more powerful basically free?
Or controller which is a keybed with few extra sensors?

[digitalboytn]

So which part makes it 2000€?

I think that the answer to this question is wrapped up in the notes that were released of the "team" meetings

[Torchlight]

meetings notes from a former employee.

https://github.com/ArnoldBalm/ROLI

I read one, then I read all five. The Glassdoor we've always wanted.

Someone at Roli had talent, anyway.

There are the makings of a decent comedy film or television series here.

[pdxindy]

i absolutely agree with bones here, Osmose is so f**king expensive for basically a keyboard with MPE slapped over it. I don't see it's appeal over Lumi for f**k-off-times the price.
I don't care if it has a literally software synth engine, it's 2021 - give me a plugin and iOS app and i'm good.

and you'd think the top black bar is touch-sensitive and playable to give you at least some form of continuous surface like seaboard/linnstrument - but no, it's just redundant.
I really don't see what's the point of osmose.

I think the modular Lumi/Blocks system is cool. Someone can buy a variety of individual modules to suit their interests and then connect them together easily. I have nothing negative to say about it. It is a valuable contribution to MPE and expressive possibilities.

The Osmose is something different. They are not competing products. I think they both offer creative new visions.

The Osmose is a 24 voice hardware synth. You can just turn it on and play. Doesn't need to be connected to anything. There is currently no other keyboard hardware synth like it. The closest today would be Hydrasynth as it has PolyAT. But that is still not really like the Osmose. Osmose list price is $1799. Hydrasynth is selling for $1299 ($1499 list) and only has 8 voices.

And Osmose is not a regular keybed with MPE slapped over it. It is a completely new physical mechanism, designed from the ground up with polyphonic expressive playing as its focus. As such it has required the R&D to develop something new.

If the Osmose doesn't interest you, fine. But why have such a negative attitude about a company creating a new, innovative synth with nuanced expressive possibilities we didn't have available before. How can that be a bad thing?

[Echoes in the Attic]

For anyone who thinks that Lumi keys is a useless, over-priced toy, I'd recommend you watch this (it's only 1.5 minutes) -



You can see that Lumi is a really good match for the still forthcoming Osmose. They both have 4 dimensions of touch and are fully MPE compatible. However, for the price of 1 x Osmose, you could buy 6 x Lumi Keys, which would give you twice as many keys. More sensibly, you could buy a couple of Lumi Keys, a Lightpad Block and a couple of Control Blocks and have almost enough left over to buy a Seaboard Block, too. Yes, Osmose comes with a synth built in but if you have a Smartphone, then you can make music with Lumi, too. Ultimately, Lumi seems like a really cheap way into MPE and a great alternative to those who don't like Seaboards.

What this video doesn't provide however, is the feel of the keyboards. Have you ever actually used one? I have. I bought one. Sent it back immediately because it feels terrible. I had high hopes but at the end of the day it has to be something that is enjoyable to play. Lumi absolutely does feel like a toy. The cheapest korg mini keyboards feel better.

[Ploki]

The Osmose is a 24 voice hardware synth. You can just turn it on and play. Doesn't need to be connected to anything. There is currently no other keyboard hardware synth like it. The closest today would be Hydrasynth as it has PolyAT. But that is still not really like the Osmose. Osmose list price is $1799. Hydrasynth is selling for $1299 ($1499 list) and only has 8 voices.

And Osmose is not a regular keybed with MPE slapped over it. It is a completely new physical mechanism, designed from the ground up with polyphonic expressive playing as its focus. As such it has required the R&D to develop something new.

If the Osmose doesn't interest you, fine. But why have such a negative attitude about a company creating a new, innovative synth with nuanced expressive possibilities we didn't have available before. How can that be a bad thing?

I don't find it new - i found Seaboard new. I find the limitations of Osmose identical to those that preceeded it, for example TouchKeys, that's a "slap it on and its sort of osmose" layer for any keyboard https://touchkeys.co.uk

Also being a "hardware" synth doesn't interest me in one bit. I can buy any keyboard controller and a dedicated Mac Mini M1, slap a bunch of synths on it, disconnect it from the internet FOREVER, and keep using it as a hardware synth for as much as long as the osmose at least.

I'm having a negative attitude towards price, the list price on the page is €1,828.98, for essentially a controller and some software...
Give me a controller-only version for ~1000€ and we can talk again.

also i never really cared that much about LUMI, seaboard is what i found interesting.

So i'm not really negative about it, i just understand something that's supposed to be bleeding edge adhere to such archaic conventions, reminds me of some Korg workstations from early 2000s. Like okay, cool, but this hardware sound portion doesn't do anything i can't do already with a laptop, why should i care about it at all?

[machinesworking]

i absolutely agree with bones here, Osmose is so f**king expensive for basically a keyboard with MPE slapped over it. I don't see it's appeal over Lumi for f**k-off-times the price.
I don't care if it has a literally software synth engine, it's 2021 - give me a plugin and iOS app and i'm good.

and you'd think the top black bar is touch-sensitive and playable to give you at least some form of continuous surface like seaboard/linnstrument - but no, it's just redundant.
I really don't see what's the point of osmose.

I think the modular Lumi/Blocks system is cool. Someone can buy a variety of individual modules to suit their interests and then connect them together easily. I have nothing negative to say about it. It is a valuable contribution to MPE and expressive possibilities.

The Osmose is something different. They are not competing products. I think they both offer creative new visions.

The Osmose is a 24 voice hardware synth. You can just turn it on and play. Doesn't need to be connected to anything. There is currently no other keyboard hardware synth like it. The closest today would be Hydrasynth as it has PolyAT. But that is still not really like the Osmose. Osmose list price is $1799. Hydrasynth is selling for $1299 ($1499 list) and only has 8 voices.

And Osmose is not a regular keybed with MPE slapped over it. It is a completely new physical mechanism, designed from the ground up with polyphonic expressive playing as its focus. As such it has required the R&D to develop something new.

If the Osmose doesn't interest you, fine. But why have such a negative attitude about a company creating a new, innovative synth with nuanced expressive possibilities we didn't have available before. How can that be a bad thing?

I think the sarcastic simple answer is most people would rather have a price point they determine is valid over things like a company not beholden to investors and shackled to bean counters.

Companies like NI and Roli end up selling themselves off to investors after years of unchecked growth, at some point they get these massive mixed reputations, but they offered "value" at the cost of the companies stability. When another company opts for the independent boutique item approach you get these sort of awkward unrealistic comparisons.

I'm a fan of RME, they aren't cheap, but in the same time I've owned the FF800 it's fair to think that someone else (anecdotally all my real life musician friends), would go through 3-4 cheaper audio interfaces. The initial cost of M-Audio is so much better that they don't think about the time wasted buying three interfaces over the last 15 years.

To me, this is the case with software companies and hardware controllers as well. If there is no way to play the thing 10-15 years from now then why buy it? The advantage of software is huge, it's 10x cheaper than hardware, but if it dies in 3-10 years and you relied on it, and it requires you to set up an old version of Mac or Windows OS to run it, or worse it can't be authorized then to me it starts losing it's value as a fantastic 10x cheaper product.

The Osmose won't be dead in 5 years, it will be a sort of miracle if Lumi isn't. This means the cheaper Block might be better "value" today, but there's no telling what tomorrow brings.

[SLiC]

Personally I am really looking forward to my new Osmose, it will pair nicely with my Hydrasynth and Summit. No 'controller' keyboards in my studio now, just synths...I hardly ever use software virtual things nowadays for synth sounds.