Hi,
I always find it very hard to mix ensemble tracks with several orchestral instruments from different providers (e.g., Orchestral Tools, Spitfire Audio, VSL.) My question is this:
What are the best techniques when mixing a track with sampling libraries from different providers, and sometimes even with different libraries from the same provider?
Any hints or insights on this issue would be much appreciated.
All the best,
António
Mixing with Different Professional Orchestral Libraries
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Well, blending Orch Tools with VSL is not the same situation as mixing Spitfire with... things that are not Spitfire (I mean the Spitfire in that room they love so much with it largely baked-in).
I use really mostly VSL. I'm using several things from Orch Tools; there are two basic approaches here for me.
1) is stay with dry for both and send them to the same convolution 'verb.
2) is that VSL makes a reverb (the original Hybrid Reverb, which adds an algo' tail onto a convolution of a room) with presets built from the Teldex room OT uses, so using the OT dry is not necessary. In this more puristic approach, the VSL is in the VI Pro player (dry stage) with no reverb in that, sent to Teldex dry; or one can buy the MIRx Teldex venue and apply that in VI Pro, or simply instantiate the Teldex venue in MIR Pro.
2B) is mixing that room with a byproduct of the VSL product MIR Pro called MIRacle, which has an 'enhance' mode so the tail derived from its favored room, the Synchron Stage is applied to whatever, and I'm using VSL in Synchron Player and/or Synchron Stage in MIR Pro. In my experience the blend is not a problem, albeit I may be shy of how wet the Berlin room gets to be as I really do exploit the Synchron Stage in MIR.
Outside of this paradigm, 3) is thinking of the two brands differently in sound design conception.
First of all, the Teldex is a deep and not wide venue. My preferred usage of Synchron is the wide and not terrifically deep view.
So here I would consider OT Berlin as a back-to-front technique and put things in the back, which is further back than Synchron Wide goes, so it's hypothetically at least not so much conflicting w. the shape or character of Synchron.
Beyond this, some of the OT I use is very sound-designy and almost like using a synth and I'll send it to a very reverberant deep/long room in MIR, eg: the Pernegg Monastery venue and mic it for distance and enveloping character way in the back, or like a Blumlein spaced pair to capture reflections on the front and think perhaps of mic'ing the instrument as widely as is feasible (mitigating the middle of the venue somewhat), eg. a figure 8 or wide cfg.
Frankly I've avoided the original Spitfire stuff with that room so prevalent, after finding its room is overwhelming and has a color that is not blending with the things I like (and I don't love their room like they do, it's a brown, very diffuse and cloudy room vs say Synchron which is clean and crisp comparatively), and I'm suspicious of a lot of low end to reverb to begin with. IE: with those you're going big with their sound or you're going home.
I use really mostly VSL. I'm using several things from Orch Tools; there are two basic approaches here for me.
1) is stay with dry for both and send them to the same convolution 'verb.
2) is that VSL makes a reverb (the original Hybrid Reverb, which adds an algo' tail onto a convolution of a room) with presets built from the Teldex room OT uses, so using the OT dry is not necessary. In this more puristic approach, the VSL is in the VI Pro player (dry stage) with no reverb in that, sent to Teldex dry; or one can buy the MIRx Teldex venue and apply that in VI Pro, or simply instantiate the Teldex venue in MIR Pro.
2B) is mixing that room with a byproduct of the VSL product MIR Pro called MIRacle, which has an 'enhance' mode so the tail derived from its favored room, the Synchron Stage is applied to whatever, and I'm using VSL in Synchron Player and/or Synchron Stage in MIR Pro. In my experience the blend is not a problem, albeit I may be shy of how wet the Berlin room gets to be as I really do exploit the Synchron Stage in MIR.
Outside of this paradigm, 3) is thinking of the two brands differently in sound design conception.
First of all, the Teldex is a deep and not wide venue. My preferred usage of Synchron is the wide and not terrifically deep view.
So here I would consider OT Berlin as a back-to-front technique and put things in the back, which is further back than Synchron Wide goes, so it's hypothetically at least not so much conflicting w. the shape or character of Synchron.
Beyond this, some of the OT I use is very sound-designy and almost like using a synth and I'll send it to a very reverberant deep/long room in MIR, eg: the Pernegg Monastery venue and mic it for distance and enveloping character way in the back, or like a Blumlein spaced pair to capture reflections on the front and think perhaps of mic'ing the instrument as widely as is feasible (mitigating the middle of the venue somewhat), eg. a figure 8 or wide cfg.
Frankly I've avoided the original Spitfire stuff with that room so prevalent, after finding its room is overwhelming and has a color that is not blending with the things I like (and I don't love their room like they do, it's a brown, very diffuse and cloudy room vs say Synchron which is clean and crisp comparatively), and I'm suspicious of a lot of low end to reverb to begin with. IE: with those you're going big with their sound or you're going home.
Last edited by jancivil on Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
With 1) there, the dry to send approach puristically will be to use only the close mics in the OT product, and a lot of the charm of a product may well be lost. So I make a separate channel for the Decca Tree, A/B config or surround in VE Pro and treat that differently, with the close mics simply going to MIR Synchron. This separate out is probably going to have the MIRacle or Hybrid Reverb (or here the HR Pro) enhance mode apply, the former possibly as an insert (it's about the tail, not the convolution of the room itself), and watch the wet setting. Depends on the mix and the orchestration.
Having the MIR with the Teldex venue sorts the problem with little worry, but I didn't buy that yet, what I do is not a problem enough to throw money at it.
Having the MIR with the Teldex venue sorts the problem with little worry, but I didn't buy that yet, what I do is not a problem enough to throw money at it.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
With other Kontakt things it's simply dry unless it's a special FX kind of usage. I like synths in the back of the monastery and very enveloping, not in the room with the acoustic instruments. With drums I don't use MIR at this point, BFD3 is about their room as well, and it's a whole thing (I turn its master channel way down, with the Ambient channels feeding in and pay attention to what feeds that).
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
y.w
btw I mean with 'other Kontakt' it's dry in there and the instrument goes to MIR. Most of mine are not having an emphasis on room or 'verb within.
btw I mean with 'other Kontakt' it's dry in there and the instrument goes to MIR. Most of mine are not having an emphasis on room or 'verb within.