FL Studio 20.8.4 Released inc. Apple Silicon Support

[machinesworking]

Sounds like an OS bug MS aren't addressing which makes total sense, that it's an OS bug, not that they're not addressing it. Nothing solved the issue, and she never uses the laptop for anything besides Office and Zoom. What's weird is how randomly it hits people, but that's the luck of the draw I guess.

Sunday is "WaaS Day" (you can check in the Task Scheduler/Microsoft/Windows/WaaS) so the reports start rolling in. Two from this morning:

"I finally found a fix ... actually a work around ... for this issue. I replaced my HD with a SSD. Now, instead of waiting 5-15 minutes for my laptop to boot, it's fully up and running in 8-15 SECONDS."

"I discovered that the WaaSMedicAgent.exe was busy reading files in the C:\Windows\servicing\LCU folder, so I navigated to it using explorer. The folder contains 3 subfolders:
C:\Windows\servicing\LCU\Package_for_RollupFix~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~19041.1110.1.15 dated 7/17/2021
C:\Windows\servicing\LCU\Package_for_RollupFix~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~19041.1165.1.8 dated 8/25/2021
C:\Windows\servicing\LCU\Package_for_RollupFix~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~19041.1202.1.15 dated 9/3/2021

"If you're not aware, these folders contain files used by Windows Update to patch various services in literally every OS version for the listed cpu architecture. The 3 folders collectively contain 255,153 files in 80,059 subfolders totalling 3.09 gb of data.
(My Edit: That doesn't count all the files WaaS reads in the Win SxS folder)
According to procmon, WaaSMedicAgent was reading every single one of these 255,000 files and checking each one to see if it was needed. Here's the kicker though, each of those folders is from a PREVIOUSLY INSTALLED WINDOWS UPDATE! That means WaaS is checking OLD patches to see if they need to be patched AGAIN!" End quotes.

So it's quite apparent that M$ is intentionally trying to force people to upgrade to SSDs so that even systems that shipped with Win 10 and HDDs are affected with the WaaS Medic issue.

Sure we should all be running SSDs in 2021 but not everybody can afford to upgrade. I have 7 systems that still have spinning hard drives so it's no trivial expense for me.

Once again not trying to hijack the thread but my point is Microsoft deserves just as much hatred as Apple.

With Win 11 not be able to run on millions and millions of perfectly capable machines and Win 10 support slated to end in 2025 there will decisions to be made. Use an unsupported OS, pay to upgrade your hardware, or move to Mac OS or Linux.

But at least with the Windows fiasco it's not really the end user's fault other than choosing Win 10 in the first place.

For those Mac users who have made the conscious decision to jump on the Silicon bandwagon and are now complaining to developers about support well that's why they call early adoption the "bleeding edge" of technology. There will be pain.

Anyway back on the topic of FL Studio 20.8.4 it's another great free update to a great DAW. Looking forward to version 21 as well.

Yeah that's crazy. Basically you're insinuating it's an intentional bug in order to assure that people move over to SSDs. I don't get it though, I'm not sure how the OS looks good when it has a crippling bug? The only reason possibly is that Windows 10 is that much slower in execution that they decided to force peoples hands to make it run smoother.

It's the exact opposite situation to the iOS/iPhone fiasco a while ago where Apple was slowing down older iPhones after an update in order to give them something like a decent battery life since the new OS killed the probably already not at full capacity batteries. Cripple the drive in order to force a hardware replacement so your OS doesn't seem bloated, VS cripple the OS so it doesn't act like a battery hog.

Either way it's dumb as it can get when companies take the choice out of your hands instead of just simply pointing out the obvious, that newer OS's will take more battery/CPU, and access the drive more making them seem slow if you have a 5400rpm spinner.

[apoclypse]

That's a weird thing to bring up.

Why? They compete with all DAW developers. That is a weird situation.

Has Apple done anything to you as a developerto show you that Logic is getting preferential treatment on their platform?

Of course, Garage Band, the gateway drug to Logic, is free across macOS and iOS devices.

https://www.apple.com/au/mac/garageband/

This is far from a level playing field.

Now, in full disclosure DAWs also occupy a similar situation with 3rd party plugin developers. Every time they (we) release an included plugin in a certain category it can eat into their sales.

These are just facts about the industry.

Okay. Like you mentioned the situation is the same on your end when you integrate some feature or plugin that eats into other tool makers, VST makers markets. It's how you create a selling point for you platform and it's how Apple does the same. Seems weird to call them out for it when you admittedly do the same. That's why I think it's weird to even bring it up.

Anyway thanks for clarifying.

[Xbucket]

Thanks for porting this to m1. Never thought you would be that quick. I bought fl Studio for it synths as some of them are not available for the Mac without flstudio; still have to learn how to use the standalone, but as it works so well in other daws it’s not that crucial.
Regarding that new arm thing I can understand how annoying this must be for developers but as a user it is great that you gain that much speed. The only drawback is waiting for all Software being ported. Somehow I feel when they made the change from the blue bubblegum powermacs to the Mac pros it took more time but to be honest I can’t remember.

[machinesworking]

Somehow I feel when they made the change from the blue bubblegum powermacs to the Mac pros it took more time but to be honest I can’t remember.

It feals pretty much the same, at least with NI taking forever etc.

Seems like other companies are quicker this time and IMO this is due to the annoying to developers changes that Catalina and Big Sur brought on, once your software is Big Sur compatible it's halfway there.

Couldn't really do that with the change from OS 9 to X or PPC to Intel.

[Xbucket]

Somehow I feel when they made the change from the blue bubblegum powermacs to the Mac pros it took more time but to be honest I can’t remember.

It feals pretty much the same, at least with NI taking forever etc.

Seems like other companies are quicker this time and IMO this is due to the annoying to developers changes that Catalina and Big Sur brought on, once your software is Big Sur compatible it's halfway there.

Couldn't really do that with the change from OS 9 to X or PPC to Intel.

I think most of the ni stuff works now, even when it’s with Rosetta. Massive x works now too. But becoming native might take a while.

[EvilDragon]

With Win 11 not be able to run on millions and millions of perfectly capable machines

It's perfectly possible to disable the TPM requirement for W11. There are already articles on it. It remains to be seen if MS will stick to that requirement or if they will ease up on it.

[machine_spirit]

Obviously it's awkward when a platform that apparently require an atypically large amount of work to support also offers its own product (Logic) which is in direct competition with yours and naturally has a great advantage, being developed by the same business that produces the hardware and maintains the OS. I really don't see the similarity between that and VSTs, unless Image-Line creates an atypical amount of work for the plugin developers and are using their dominant position in a manner that is negative for other developers? It can't really be the same thing obviously, because Image-Line is a very small player compared to the tech giant Apple.

All OS alternatives are terrible at this point. Windows after W7 is a data mining, advertisement and sales platform for the bread and circus crowd, it's practically free for a reason. Decent Apple hardware is very expensive and Linux is not supported by most developers. No wonder so many people still cling to their W7 machines, i only downgraded to W10 when there was basically no choice (new hardware).

[chk071]

With Win 11 not be able to run on millions and millions of perfectly capable machines

It's perfectly possible to disable the TPM requirement for W11. There are already articles on it. It remains to be seen if MS will stick to that requirement or if they will ease up on it.

My guess is that they will. MS alyways were into market share, so, I can't really imagine them going the other direction with Windows 11.

Windows 10 also requires TPM since a couple of versions. You know? Right??

[machinesworking]

Somehow I feel when they made the change from the blue bubblegum powermacs to the Mac pros it took more time but to be honest I can’t remember.

It feals pretty much the same, at least with NI taking forever etc.

Seems like other companies are quicker this time and IMO this is due to the annoying to developers changes that Catalina and Big Sur brought on, once your software is Big Sur compatible it's halfway there.

Couldn't really do that with the change from OS 9 to X or PPC to Intel.

I think most of the ni stuff works now, even when it’s with Rosetta. Massive x works now too. But becoming native might take a while.

I'm not counting Rosetta 2 support. That's hardly an accomplishment.
The list of Rosetta incompatible software is the smaller list.

[Xbucket]

As far as it runs ok I am happy for the beginning. When everything is native I am even more happy.

[machinesworking]

Obviously it's awkward when a platform that apparently require an atypically large amount of work to support also offers its own product (Logic) which is in direct competition with yours and naturally has a great advantage, being developed by the same business that produces the hardware and maintains the OS. I really don't see the similarity between that and VSTs, unless Image-Line creates an atypical amount of work for the plugin developers and are using their dominant position in a manner that is negative for other developers? It can't really be the same thing obviously, because Image-Line is a very small player compared to the tech giant Apple.

I dunno I think it is comparable. Image Line makes a solid mastering limiter that gets great reviews and that cuts into sales for all the developers making limiters. This affects maybe 1/10th of their sales. Apple gives branding to Logic as well as offering it at a lower price than normal for a DAW, and it's going to cut into sales for FL Studio, but the rate is arguably a little higher for Logic since it gets push from Apple which is anywhere around 50% of a cross platform DAWs sales.

Essentially I would guess that since Apple only competes with Mac OS DAW sales, and a cross platform DAW is competing with all plug ins of the type they develop for their DAW on both platforms.

Basically for a plug in developer it's a similar level of competition that DAW developer experiences with Logic. So I think it's a fair comparison.

[EvilDragon]

I'm not counting Rosetta 2 support. That's hardly an accomplishment.

You'd think that, but it was actually really really difficult in Massive X and Kontakt case.

[machinesworking]

I'm not counting Rosetta 2 support. That's hardly an accomplishment.

You'd think that, but it was actually really really difficult in Massive X and Kontakt case.

Surprised with Massive x, not surprised with Kontakt. OTOH I would bet those are the first two Apple Silicon compatible NI products I would expect show up.

[EvilDragon]

AVX instructions were the clincher with MX. Kontakt doesn't use above SSE2 so that was fine, but there were certain behavioral things that complicated mattres.

[machine_spirit]

Basically for a plug in developer it's a similar level of competition that DAW developer experiences with Logic. So I think it's a fair comparison.

Image-Line is not nearly as dominant in the DAW market as Apple is in audio in general though. As in, the OS market is almost split into two halves while the DAW market has a bunch of major players for plugin developers to focus on if they want to. Sure, these plugin developers still have to deal with the Microsoft/Apple divide too but that isn't Image-Lines fault or within their control.