Bus vs. folder tracks

[antic604]

Ok, I'll admit to being clueless about this for the longest time, which might be the result of me having started in the DAW world in 2017 with Live - and later also Bitwig - both of which equate those two concepts. So whenever you'd group some tracks, they're automatically routed to that Group track. Which I was always fine with and it seemed natural...

But having worked in Studio One and Cubase, I noticed they deliberately separate the concepts:

• Folder tracks - let you group several tracks visually, to have them in one place & fold them out of view when not editing them; but each track is still - by default - routed to Master

• Bus tracks - that actually capture the output of several tracks for common processing, before passing it on to Master for final summing

Initially I couldn't really see the use for that and honestly found it confusing, but lately I forced myself to use buses & folders as they are - I think - meant to be used, i.e. folder tracks group stuff that I'll likely want to reference and edit together, and bus tracks for stuff that sounds or is meant to sound similar.

So for example I'd have folders for:

• drums (kick, percussions),

• bass (low- and mid-range),

• melodics (acid lines, synths), and

• fx/atmospheres (pads, sound FX),

but I'd have buses for:

• kick + low-end bass,

• mid-range bass + acid lines,

• synths + pads,

• percussions + sound FX

How you are using those features of your DAW?

[apoclypse]

In S1 and Logic they can be the same thing (folder or bus or in S1's case VCA) so that's how I usually organize my stuff. In Bitwig and Ableton they are pretty much automatic when you group things, though in Live you can route audio to another track and treat that as a bus. I use both in Ableton if I just want some Sub Mixes. I don't recall if that happens in Bitwig I know at some you needed an audio routing plug.

I separate my busses as Drums, Bass, Synths, Acoustics (piano etc), Guitars, Vocals, and FX. That's how I usually like my stuff organized. If the DAW allows (S1, Bitwig) I add the Send tracks into the bus as well that way I can lower and raise the group level without messing too much with the returns.

Logic's Folder/Busses are a little weird so I don't like using them there as much. You can't really nest folder within folders without some workarounds and I like to nest my tracks. When all is said and done when all my folders are folded up I should only have the submixes visible. I never put anything outside of the busses unless I'm just trying something out, but those get moved to the corresponding busses eventually.

[cryophonik]

I'm glad you asked this because I thought I was the only one. Coming from a primarily Sonar (and S1 and Cubase) background, I'm used to having folders simply be a container for organizing tracks and that's the way I like it. I really don't like the folder track implementation in Logic at all (although I do love Logic and that's now my main DAW). I use busses for all of my individual tracks and I don't like, want, or need the added "track" component that comes with folders in Logic. I really wish Logic's implementation was far more simplified and more similar to other DAWs. I also dislike the term "folder track" - "track folder" is a far more appropriate term IMO because it's a folder for tracks, not a track for folders.

[DMG68]

I use cubase and will put all drums and percussion in a folder, but drum kit to one buss and percs to another, or direct to master. Same with vocals, all in one folder but separate busses for lead and backing vocals. I don’t use a crazy number of tracks normally, so that’s the most that I use folders for, and it generally keep my arrangement window clean enough with that.

[jancivil]

Here one has nothing to do with the other per se. A folder is mostly there to cut down on vertical scrolling, a bus is there to process sound invididually. Or, Cubase requires a group bus in order to record the output of a channel, and certain other things. But it's not an organizing principle to me.

Folders here contain a family, eg., the audio I commit to from a specific instrument or type, beyond say two it's a folder to collapse until I need to see it, or foley/sound FX type audio, same thing.

Besides the minimizing point, I create a folder for all of MIDI tracks so when I insert bars and glue the lot back together in project window it's double-click that folder track to get it all back in Key Editor rather than a select all/enter motion (if only because in project window they remain all selected which is a potential problem and aesthetically displeasing as a look) so it's a time-saving move. If I place audio within the "MIDI" folder the double-click opens both of course, which is occasionally useful, for lining up timing. Here it is actually a track for a folder.

[xbitz]

Cubase (etc.) folders can be put into folders (bass: sub/mid/top etc.) so good for organizing things and in C multitrack editing/comping are folder-based buses are totally different animals, FLS has only one track type so it's easy to choose

[jancivil]

I set prefs for the 'nesting' folders or however that reads but rarely need to be that anal.

Besides my limited use of buses in Cubase, in VE Pro I first of all bus everything to at max 4 stereo outs per instance, and the drums mix nowadays is several mono or stereo outs to its own bus for a (sub-)master level then to its main out; or I make a separate out in a Kontakt (a multi with additional separate outs) or SINE player instrument (for special 'A/B' or surround considerations from its mixer separately) which might be consolidated so as to place one thing rather than more than one in MIR Pro 24 as I'm out of luck past 24 of those guys (not to mention pushing the system past where it buckles, I don't have extra machines as slaves). Cubase mixing is mostly just for audio. The VE Pro returns I may fade out in Cubase at the end, but it's all submixed. Here actually the reason for 4 or however vs 1 stereo out per instance is organizational

[EnGee]

I use busses in two ways. First like a group control, for example, drums. Second as return busses like Reverb. Folder is just for graphical organization, but rarely used.

[xbitz]

btw. sends , we can bring VCA Faders too into the picture, tracks fx sends are post-fader ones(by default), group faders change the overall levels but track fx send levels remain the same: bybye dry/wet fx balance, so do you use VCA ones, where do you put the compressors for ex. seems their ideal place is on the tracks otherwise, they have to be set again and again after any level changes

How to Use VCA and Group channels in Cubase | Q&A with Greg Ondo

[EnGee]

Sometimes you want to compress all the drums, in that case routing them to one bus and add Compressor as insert into the bus.
For fx busses, no routings needed. Just send from the track you want it affected by that fx.
I don't use VCA or other mixing tools.

[MuzikFreq]

In Ableton I group all my tracks into relative folders that act like a bus.

FlStudio what's grouping?

Reason..... Still no folders tracks

Bitwig same as Ableton

Studio One I usually would just put the tracks into a folder and link the folder to the bus

[xbitz]

^^^ FL, can't see well my irony detector so

[mholloway]

Folder tracks - let you group several tracks visually, to have them in one place & fold them out of view when not editing them; but each track is still - by default - routed to Master[/list]

I guess some DAWs must do this and call it 'folder tracks' but what I'm used to seeing are 'Group Tracks', like in Ableton, and with those, the output of each track inside the group is route to the Group track, not the Master. They are, in effect, identical to routing all those tracks to one bus, but much easier to configure from a UI / workflow standpoint.

[jancivil]

How to Use VCA and Group channels in Cubase | Q&A with Greg Ondo

sehr cool, thanks for sharing that. I learned some things I can use.

[MuzikFreq]

^^^ FL, can't see well my irony detector so

That's the thing though. Your only choice is mix bus.
Sure you can group stuff on the arrangement, but that's only useful for grouping the 5 bazillion automations to the proper track.... Then again, can be like most people and say fk it I'll just slap it in there on / under / over whatever track because why have organization.