vital has a huge maximum detune range if you go into the advanced settings, which is what happened here i think on the "organ sound". so, yes, other synths do scale it differently.Norqa wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:24 pmCould be.gaggle of hermits wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:59 pm
i think it's just because vital has a larger detuning range than the others - the tones start to line up again. to me, it feels that maximum out of tuneness is around 65% on vital.
Perhaps other Synths scale things differently?
Or it could be that Vital simply just doesn't care and does what it wants when it goes out of whack.
24 Synth Supersaw Comparison
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gaggle of hermits gaggle of hermits https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=521655
- KVRian
- 962 posts since 18 Jul, 2021
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2374 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
As someone above mentioned. I did indeed set the detune to maximum (as with all). Massive (original) also has the extreme detune settings. Some of them have a very small detune range - I think Ana 2 detune is very tame.Norqa wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:03 pmUnderstood but all the other Synths seemed to sound roughly the same at the maximum detune (generally awful as expected) Vital behaved completely differently, almost like some of the harmonics flipped?Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:56 am
Cool, thanks. The extreme detune is not supposed to sound good in this context.
Maybe Vital has extra secret sauce?
I also noticed Massive X only has 6 voices. In my opinion, this has an effect on the supersaw it can produce.
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2374 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
From my brief test, most synths didn't have much audible aliasing. Expect the JPK6 which has loads of extra bright harmonics, which I guess is aliasing (I don't want a technical conversation about it really). Saying that, I expect it is because the supersaw had aliasing the same which was part of the bright sounds - from my understanding, not trying to teach anything here.Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:17 pmDid you check for aliasing? If you do a pitch bend in the high register it gets very evident… With supersaw its the nature of the beast to be prone to aliasing…Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:48 am However, there are a couple of synths that really didn't sound as good, especially played higher up.
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
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- Banned
- 203 posts since 13 Jul, 2021
It was always going to be a rough test and for that I appreciate your efforts.Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:00 pm As someone above mentioned. I did indeed set the detune to maximum (as with all). Massive (original) also has the extreme detune settings. Some of them have a very small detune range - I think Ana 2 detune is very tame.
I also noticed Massive X only has 6 voices. In my opinion, this has an effect on the supersaw it can produce.
To drill down further perhaps Dune2 would have been worth a mention?
It has different modes on the Supersaw, Linear, Non Linear, Gaussian and alternate to name some.
- Banned
- 10732 posts since 17 Nov, 2015
He used D3 (has the same modes)Norqa wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:18 pmIt was always going to be a rough test and for that I appreciate your efforts.Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:00 pm As someone above mentioned. I did indeed set the detune to maximum (as with all). Massive (original) also has the extreme detune settings. Some of them have a very small detune range - I think Ana 2 detune is very tame.
I also noticed Massive X only has 6 voices. In my opinion, this has an effect on the supersaw it can produce.
To drill down further perhaps Dune2 would have been worth a mention?
It has different modes on the Supersaw, Linear, Non Linear, Gaussian and alternate to name some.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2374 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
That's right, I did mention something about that on the page too. I think it was DUNE 3 linear mode used here. Btw, I personally thought Dune's detune sounded very smooth. I bet it does a great SUPERSTRING?!
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
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- KVRist
- 89 posts since 10 Sep, 2019
This was a lot of fun. Nice thread
Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1Hj25rA ... l_branch=1
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2374 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
Ah thanks very much! Had a lot of fun doing it. Was a lot of work though.
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
- KVRist
- 179 posts since 14 Jul, 2019
I didn't think you did add compression on those synths. It just seemed to me that they lacked oomph. Maybe missing low end then?Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:01 amThank you. I added no compression and outputs on synths were fairly low so no clipping.HTT wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 am I liked this comparison. Thanks for doing it.
I did the blind and then the YouTube version. I liked Diva and Jp6k supersaws the best. Next tier was Serum, original Massive, Spire, and Pigments 3. Next tier was ANA 2, Rapid, PhasePlant, and Zebra 2. And so on…
It seemed the supersynths (Avenger, Dune 3, and Omnisphere) were compressed. I wonder how Falcon would have fared.
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- KVRAF
- 1863 posts since 11 Apr, 2008
JP6K has aliasing. It has specially simulated aliasing of JP8000/8080 which is a godfather of SuperSaws. That synth (original hardware) was used to create the first track that made SuperSaw famous (System F - Out of the blue)Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:04 pmFrom my brief test, most synths didn't have much audible aliasing. Expect the JPK6 which has loads of extra bright harmonics, which I guess is aliasing (I don't want a technical conversation about it really). Saying that, I expect it is because the supersaw had aliasing the same which was part of the bright sounds - from my understanding, not trying to teach anything here.Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:17 pmDid you check for aliasing? If you do a pitch bend in the high register it gets very evident… With supersaw its the nature of the beast to be prone to aliasing…Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:48 am However, there are a couple of synths that really didn't sound as good, especially played higher up.
Aliasing is actually part of the "classic sound of supersaw". Access Virus quickly became 2nd "best synth" for SuperSaw/HyperSaw. If I remember correctly, Virus has 96k SR so it can avoid (most of) aliasing.
About plugins, I remember that Spire sounded waaaay better in 96k projects (huge audible difference). Today most plugins use oversampling for SuperSaws to avoid aliasing I guess?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2374 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
I added or took away nothing. Some just sound different to others. The 2 you say you liked best were mono though.HTT wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:39 pmI didn't think you did add compression on those synths. It just seemed to me that they lacked oomph. Maybe missing low end then?Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:01 amThank you. I added no compression and outputs on synths were fairly low so no clipping.HTT wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 am I liked this comparison. Thanks for doing it.
I did the blind and then the YouTube version. I liked Diva and Jp6k supersaws the best. Next tier was Serum, original Massive, Spire, and Pigments 3. Next tier was ANA 2, Rapid, PhasePlant, and Zebra 2. And so on…
It seemed the supersynths (Avenger, Dune 3, and Omnisphere) were compressed. I wonder how Falcon would have fared.
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2374 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
Exactly, that is my understanding as well.pixel85 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:56 amJP6K has aliasing. It has specially simulated aliasing of JP8000/8080 which is a godfather of SuperSaws. That synth (original hardware) was used to create the first track that made SuperSaw famous (System F - Out of the blue)Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:04 pmFrom my brief test, most synths didn't have much audible aliasing. Expect the JPK6 which has loads of extra bright harmonics, which I guess is aliasing (I don't want a technical conversation about it really). Saying that, I expect it is because the supersaw had aliasing the same which was part of the bright sounds - from my understanding, not trying to teach anything here.Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:17 pmDid you check for aliasing? If you do a pitch bend in the high register it gets very evident… With supersaw its the nature of the beast to be prone to aliasing…Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:48 am However, there are a couple of synths that really didn't sound as good, especially played higher up.
Aliasing is actually part of the "classic sound of supersaw". Access Virus quickly became 2nd "best synth" for SuperSaw/HyperSaw. If I remember correctly, Virus has 96k SR so it can avoid (most of) aliasing.
About plugins, I remember that Spire sounded waaaay better in 96k projects (huge audible difference). Today most plugins use oversampling for SuperSaws to avoid aliasing I guess?
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
- Banned
- 10732 posts since 17 Nov, 2015
IIRC, D3 has a specific osc detune mode that emulates the jp8000 supersaw.... bit fuzzy on the details, and may be wrong....Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:51 pmThat's right, I did mention something about that on the page too. I think it was DUNE 3 linear mode used here. Btw, I personally thought Dune's detune sounded very smooth. I bet it does a great SUPERSTRING?!
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
I think it was Swarm.
I indeed prefer it to other detune modes when it comes to making the classic oldschool "tarnce" stuff.
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